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leozhengbo
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Zhejiang province, China
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 Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Will the war between Chinese mainland and Taiwan burst o |
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| justinlan wrote: |
And helping Taiwan to get independence is a good chance for the governments of US and japan to inhibit the development of China.Here,I don't mean American and Japanese people is inimical to China.I mean it is a warfare of the governments  |
But I want to tell you that help Taiwan to get independence is not the best way for the USA.American are smart, they didn't help Taiwan be independent many decades ago, they won't do it in the future, because it doesn't meet America's behalf.
but you're right , there are no such friends between countries which will be forever, only behalf forever.
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BMW is called "宝马� in China,which means "precious horse", now it is produced by the hands of Chinese. |
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mingping
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: Agree with |
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Napoleon wrote:
You are the kind of tricky guy who is good at avoiding substantial question and sneaking concept by using beautiful words under ugly logic.[/quote]
Yes, I agree with you.
How can we define that a land is a territory to a country? The principle is :if the land belonged to the country in recent decades and not be conquerrd by other contry, such land is a territory to the country. To review the history of TW, we can find that TW belonged to China in morden history and at this moment it just be ruled by a different party not by another country in the world.
I think TW and mainland can seek common points while reserving differences to develop together. Either for TW or for mainland, war is not necessary or needed. Just as I have said before, people of TW and China come from some race. Why should we fight?
At this moment, I think mainland is trying maitian the balance between American, TW and mainland. Why should TW try its best to break the balance? I can not understand.
I think out a way to describe TW. TW liked a wife of mainland before. But after the experience of kidnap and self-evolution, TW becomes rich and refued to be the wife of mainland again. Yes, TW can divorce with mainland, but at first TW has to get permission from mainland. Divorce is a result of negotiation and agreement between two parties involved.
P.S. I hate all kinds of war and don't expect any war of China, except the war between China and Japan. |
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pavilion
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 75
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Most Taiwanese support maintaining the status quo. If China keeps being aggressive towards Taiwan and threatening force, it is only going make more Taiwanese support indepencence. If China wants Taiwan to reunite with them, they have to come to a mutual agreement. They have to negotiate, none of this "take-it-or-leave-it" garbage, or threatening invasion. The Taiwanese will not accept the "one country, two systems" policy, like Hong Kong did, so offer a new one.
The US "officially" supports "One China"; however, most Americans support Taiwan independence (Read #4 of the link below). We have sent carrier groups to the area after the Chinese military was running maneuvers in the Taiwan Strait, and chased them away. So, if push comes to shove, look for the US to ultimately support Taiwan (Read #5 of link below). Honestly, not many people outside of China even like the current Chinese government. Many view it as oppressive and a violator of human-rights.
| leozhengbo wrote: |
But I want to tell you that help Taiwan to get independence is not the best way for the USA.American are smart, they didn't help Taiwan be independent many decades ago, they won't do it in the future, because it doesn't meet America's behalf.
but you're right , there are no such friends between countries which will be forever, only behalf forever. |
You are right. Here is a good link:
http://taiwansecurity.org/IS/2002/Lasater-0702.htm |
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leozhengbo
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Zhejiang province, China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| pavilion wrote: |
. If China wants Taiwan to reunite with them, they have to come to a mutual agreement. They have to negotiate, The Taiwanese will not accept the "one country, two systems" policy, like Hong Kong did, so offer a new one.
The US "officially" supports "One China"; however, most Americans support Taiwan independence (Read #4 of the link below). We have sent carrier groups to the area after the Chinese military was running maneuvers in the Taiwan Strait, and chased them away. So, if push comes to shove, look for the US to ultimately support Taiwan (Read #5 of link below). Honestly, not many people outside of China even like the current Chinese government. Many view it as oppressive and a violator of human-rights. |
mutual agreement is the essential element which is needed to reunite the country. however, why do Taiwanese hate the "one country, two systems" policy? Hongkong was a more free area than Taiwan before 1997, it could accept the policy, why couldn't Taiwan?
don't send carrier to China sea, we have lots of missiles which will kill thousands of US soldiers.we can sustain the loss of people , but American can not.
_________________
BMW is called "宝马� in China,which means "precious horse", now it is produced by the hands of Chinese. |
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leozhengbo
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Zhejiang province, China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
mingping wrote
How can we define that a land is a territory to a country? The principle is :if the land belonged to the country in recent decades and not be conquerrd by other contry, such land is a territory to the country. To review the history of TW, we can find that TW belonged to China in morden history and at this moment it just be ruled by a different party not by another country in the world. |
That is what I want to say. It is the land of China if you know what history is and what law is.
| Quote: |
| I think out a way to describe TW. TW liked a wife of mainland before. But after the experience of kidnap and self-evolution, TW becomes rich and refued to be the wife of mainland again. Yes, TW can divorce with mainland, but at first TW has to get permission from mainland. Divorce is a result of negotiation and agreement between two parties involved. |
Good description, as we all know strength is truth, the mainland won�t let this truth to be a mistake in history.
| Quote: |
| P.S. I hate all kinds of war and don't expect any war of China, except the war between China and Japan. |
War is not as exciting as someone images, it is so cruel. War only kills and destroys. So I hate wars very much.
_________________
BMW is called "宝马� in China,which means "precious horse", now it is produced by the hands of Chinese. |
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pavilion
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 75
Location: US
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| leozhengbo wrote: |
| mutual agreement is the essential element which is needed to reunite the country. however, why do Taiwanese hate the "one country, two systems" policy? Hongkong was a more free area than Taiwan before 1997, it could accept the policy, why couldn't Taiwan? |
I agree that mutual agreement is neccessary. I am not sure why Taiwan hates the policy, I just know they do. Even the reunificationists don't like it. I will do some research on it and see if I can find why!
| leozhengbo wrote: |
| don't send carrier to China sea, we have lots of missiles which will kill thousands of US soldiers.we can sustain the loss of people , but American can not. |
We have before. In 1996, during the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis, we sent two carriers. That was when China fired missiles over Taiwan to try and intimidate them. China may have missiles, but you underestimate the power of a United States Carrier Battle Group. Our cruisers would shoot down the missiles. China would not be foolish enough to attack one, anyways. |
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leozhengbo
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Zhejiang province, China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am not sure why Taiwan hates the policy, I just know they do. Even the reunificationists don't like it. I will do some research on it and see if I can find why! |
So you're a doctor in some institute ? What's your specialty?
| Quote: |
| We have before. In 1996, during the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis, we sent two carriers. That was when China fired missiles over Taiwan to try and intimidate them. China may have missiles, but you underestimate the power of a United States Carrier Battle Group. Our cruisers would shoot down the missiles. China would not be foolish enough to attack one, anyways. |
I know that , our Chinese all know that.I want to say that China not only have missiles, but also submarines, nuclear submarines.
yes, you could shoot down many missiles, but you cann't shoot down all the missiles, we can launch plenty of missiles in a time from the air , the surface and the submarine.
I can agree with you that the US army is the best one in the world in technical war.But could the USA sustain the loss of people?
Meanwhile , we are developing our own military power:[img] http://photocdn.sohu.com/20050907/Img226886838.jpg[/img]
_________________
BMW is called "宝马� in China,which means "precious horse", now it is produced by the hands of Chinese. |
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joon_star
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Dajon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| leozhengbo wrote: |
could the USA sustain the loss of people?
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The Loss of US will be minimum because the US mainland will not be the war field. Asia will be the main war field.
Taiwan will be the first war field.
China, Korea, Japan are the next war fields.
MakIng the Asia war-field instead of US mainLand is strategies of US.
| leozhengbo wrote: |
Meanwhile, we are developing our own military power.
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In building military power, Japan and Korea actually need US approval.
Without US approval, Japan and Korea can't build up their military powers especially in attacking weapons while China doesn't needs US approval in building up her military power.
If China is developing military power, Japan, Korea will also develop military power with US approvals.
US approve Japan and Korea build up military power according to China's military building-up.
I'll give one example.
You know China has hundreds of nuclear missiles.
Japan has no nuclear missiles officially at the moment.
Korea has no nuclear missiles officially at the moment.
But there are lots of nuclear power plants in Japan and Korea.
If Japan makes her mind to have nuclear missiles, she can get thousands of nuclear missiles in 3 months.
I've remember a report telling Japan can get as many as 4 times of China has in 3 monthes.
Japan' nuclear power will be a lot more than Chinese nuclear power in 3 months.
Competitive Building - up military weapons in East Asia will make the area disaster.
You should get a lesson with the USSR case.
As a result of USSR's competition in military fields against US, USSR has now divided many countries(Russia, Ukreina, ..............)
If China like to build - up military weopons, I think the possibility of division of China will grow.
I think US's Power is rapidly reducing these days.
US has lost trust from the world citizens due to continous military build-up and invasion. and the deficit of US gorvernment is tremendously huge.
I hope China doesn't follow US's way of losing. |
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justinlan
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Guang Zhou CHINA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| joon_star wrote: |
If Japan makes her mind to have nuclear missiles, she can get thousands of nuclear missiles in 3 months.
I've remember a report telling Japan can get as many as 4 times of China has in 3 monthes.
Japan' nuclear power will be a lot more than Chinese nuclear power in 3 months.
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There is no need to compare the quatity of nuclear missiles among these countries  If a nuclear missile has been launched successful,using only one nuclear missile can destroy a country.If u want to discuss the nuclear war,only one outcome could be drew out,that is the end of the human being. When a country which owning nuclear missiles is facing the threat of perdition,what will it do? It will perish with its enemies together by using all its nuclear power out.  And,how many nuclear missiles can the earth endured?
We should pray devoutly,let god stop such stupid wars to happen in any case. Of course,we should try our best to exist in this planet peacefully and against whichever war strongly. 
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pavilion
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 75
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| leozhengbo wrote: |
| So you're a doctor in some institute ? What's your specialty? |
No, not a doctor. Not at any institute. I have looked it up, though, and thats the consenus I got.
| leozhengbo wrote: |
I know that , our Chinese all know that.I want to say that China not only have missiles, but also submarines, nuclear submarines.
yes, you could shoot down many missiles, but you cann't shoot down all the missiles, we can launch plenty of missiles in a time from the air , the surface and the submarine. |
Yes, you are developing your navy, but at the moment, the US has the best in the world. We have any more submarines, and most of yours are outdated, and advanced warships, there would be no way for you to compete with the US Navy at the moment.
| leozhengbo wrote: |
I can agree with you that the US army is the best one in the world in technical war.But could the USA sustain the loss of people?
Meanwhile , we are developing our own military power: |
We could probably sustain that loss, but the US would not commit mass troops to a war without first obliterating the infrastructure of a country, so we really aren't worried.
I really don't understand why we are talking about who could destroy who? It seems kind of off-topic and not really relevant, seeing as how the US and China probably will not get into a war anytime in the near future. |
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joon_star
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Dajon, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| justinlan wrote: |
| There is no need to compare the quatity of nuclear missiles among these countries |
Yes, you won.
But nuclear weapons are just an example.
My point is that If China build-up her military weaposns, Japan and Korea will build-up as much as China's building up. |
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justinlan
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Guang Zhou CHINA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| joon_star wrote: |
| justinlan wrote: |
| There is no need to compare the quatity of nuclear missiles among these countries |
Yes, you won.
But nuclear weapons are just an example.
My point is that If China build-up her military weaposns, Japan and Korea will build-up as much as China's building up. |
Exactly
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Msn:[email protected].
Add me,I am glad to be your friend.
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Let's go back,go back to the beginning,back to when the earth,the sun,the stars all aligned... |
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justinlan
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Guang Zhou CHINA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| pavilion wrote: |
Yes, you are developing your navy, but at the moment, the US has the best in the world. We have any more submarines, and most of yours are outdated, and advanced warships, there would be no way for you to compete with the US Navy at the moment.
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Admittedly,the US is a super country which other countries cannot compete with.However,i think u have forgotten just one thing,,,nuclear power ,Maybe China cannot beat the US,but ,when it is facing the perdition,it can choose to go to the hell with the US together by using nuclear missiles. 
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Msn:[email protected].
Add me,I am glad to be your friend.
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Let's go back,go back to the beginning,back to when the earth,the sun,the stars all aligned... |
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justinlan
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Guang Zhou CHINA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| pavilion wrote: |
I really don't understand why we are talking about who could destroy who? It seems kind of off-topic and not really relevant, seeing as how the US and China probably will not get into a war anytime in the near future. |
I agree with u at this point.
_________________
Msn:[email protected].
Add me,I am glad to be your friend.
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Let's go back,go back to the beginning,back to when the earth,the sun,the stars all aligned... |
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leozhengbo
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 98
Location: Zhejiang province, China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Taiwan will be the first war field.
China, Korea, Japan are the next war fields.
MakIng the Asia war-field instead of US mainLand is strategies of US. |
Yes, that is why the USA smart in a war. the USA benefits from the world wars, for the wars almost happening in other countries.
| Quote: |
You should get a lesson with the USSR case.
As a result of USSR's competition in military fields against US, USSR has now divided many countries(Russia, Ukreina, ..............)
If China like to build - up military weopons, I think the possibility of division of China will grow.
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that's a good lesson for our Chinese!If we start the war, we must think it over.
_________________
BMW is called "宝马� in China,which means "precious horse", now it is produced by the hands of Chinese. |
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