Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

Americans always want people to believe that they saved the europe from nazi,they saved the world,it's too ridiculous. Laughing

Diana · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 494 Location: Guam, USA

As I said, all you have to do is look back in history. The Internet is available to you and there are many information on World War II. Look up the information, and you will see that the Soviet Union withdrew during World War II and made a peace treaty with Nazi Germany. I've also noticed that you fail to provide me the weblink when I asked you to provide proof that the American Presidents ADMITTED that the Soviets liberated Eastern Europe. Very Happy

Oh and by the way, as anyone can plainly see, I never said that the US saved the world in any of my posts. It was YOU who said it. Wink

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

There are a large numbers of the proofs you can look up youself.
Here is a weblink to prove Soviet troops liberated Eastern Europe and many concentration camps:

http://www.worldwariihistory.info/1945.html

Here is another one:

http://www.uwec.edu/duckswsm/eastern.htm

History is not made by the USA.

Diana · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 494 Location: Guam, USA

Hello Somuch,

You only have a weblink showing a timeline of World War II. Where is the weblink showing that the American Presidents ADMITTED that the Soviet Union liberated the Eastern European countries. I don't see any written testimonies from any US President in any of your weblinks.

Your weblinks only showed a timeline of World War II. The second weblink you provided only showed a brief timeline. The first weblink is a bit more informative.

The following information on the Soviet Union was actually taken out from the FIRST weblink that you provided. I also emphasized some things in that information in bold. Very Happy

As you can see (from the bold emphasis) what Joseph Stalin did was more for himself. After World War II, Stalin occupied Eastern Europe and imposed a Stalinist regime on them.

Oh and by the way, Somuch, Stalin tortured and murdered 14.5 million people when he ruled the USSR and Eastern Europe.

Oh and another thing - I NEVER said that History was made by the US. YOU were actually the one who said that. Very Happy

The only thing I ever said was that "Ronald Reagan's harsh anti-communist policies broke the back of the Soviet Union" and I even provided a weblink supporting my view. All anyone had to do was look at my past post, and you will find it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

World War II in the Soviet Union

Adolph Hitler and the Nazis had a deap-seated hatred for Russian communists. War between Germany and the USSR was probably inevitable. Nevertheless, Stalin used the early years of the war to make territorial gains for himself.

On August 23, 1939, Germany and the USSR signed a secret non-agression pact dividing up Poland. In September, the Soviets invaded eastern Poland.

On November 30, 1939, the Russo-Finnish War began when the USSR invaded Finland. On March 12, 1940, Finland surrendered.

On June 18, 1940, the USSR invaded the Baltic states.

On April 13, 1941, the USSR and Japan signed a neutrality pact.

But Stalin could not avoid war with the Axis Powers. On June 22, 1941, Germany invaded Russia, thereby beginning Operation Barbarossa. Italy and Romania then declared war on the USSR. Shortly thereafter, Hungary, Slovakia, and Finland declared war.

On September 15, 1941, Germany began the Siege of Leningrad. It would not end until January 1944.

In October 1941 the U.S. began supplying the USSR under the Lend-Lease Act.

That same month, Germany began its drive toward Moscow. The USSR was forced to evacuate its seat of government to Kuibyshev. But in December, Germany gave up its attack on Moscow, and the Soviets counterattacked.

On January 31, 1943, over 90,000 German troops at Stalingrad surrendered to the Soviets. This was a significant turning point in the war against Germany.

Late in 1943, Stalin met with Roosevelt and Churchill for the first time -- The Teheran Conference. They agreed that the Western Allies would invade France in June 1944 and that when the invasion began the USSR would launch a new offensive from the east.

In April 1944, the USSR retook Odessa. In May, German troops surrendered in the Crimea. In July, the USSR retook Minsk.

In August, the USSR invaded German-occupied Romania. On August 23, Romania surrendered.

In September, the USSR invaded Bulgaria. Bulgaria made peace with the Soviets and declared war on Germany.

By late September, the USSR also occupied Estonia.

On October 1, 1944, Soviet troops entered Yugoslavia.

On January 17, 1945, Soviet troops captured Warsaw. In early April they captured Vienna.

On April 23, 1945, Soviet troops reached Berlin -- with over one million men and more than 20,000 pieces of artillery. A few days later, Soviet troops advancing from the East met up with U.S. troops advancing from the west at the Elbe River.

On April 30, as the Soviets were battling through the streets of his city, Adolph Hitler killed himself.

On May 2, 1945, Soviet troops completed the capture of Berlin and all remaining German troops surrendered within a few days. The war in Europe was over.

True to his promise to the Allies (and interested in expanding their Soviet in the East) Stalin broke his non-aggression pact with Japan. Soviet troops invaded Japanese-held Manchuria in August and helped win the war in the Pacific.

The people of the Soviet Union suffered greatly during the war. Well over 20 million men and women were killed -- many of them civilians.

However, the USSR's armed forces remained powerful at the end of the war. The Soviets territorial ambitions -- especially in Europe -- created tension with their former Allies. The Cold War began.

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

Diana,what are you try to prove?Why don't you talk about the dedications they Russians made?I found many people ignore this just because the regime they had.Actually,without their Struck back,Adolph Hitler would took the world in a few years.And many nations won't exist,include your island.What I want to say is,the people who fought the nazis should gain their deserved respect,and we should never forget them and their dedications.The Americans always try to play the savior of human being,that's what we can't accept,you know?That's not advisable to do in this way.

Ok,here are my questions:How many Chamorros have the same idea with you,which said you are living better without your suffrage?Do they think to vote for your president is an unimportant thing in their lives? Wink

Diana · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 494 Location: Guam, USA

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

Diana,the Russian people who died for peace in the WWII should be glorified,you can't judge them by Joseph Stalin.You also should remember their sacrifices in the war of anti-fascism. Smile

Diana · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 494 Location: Guam, USA

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

Diana · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 494 Location: Guam, USA

Somuch, the Chamorros were NOT Americans until 1950 --- remember?????? World War II was already over by that time. Razz

Yes, Somuch, I have known Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin. And that is why I judged them as evil men. Wink

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

Exactly how many people completely know another one,who they never met before but just heard.Then how could you judge them?
If you insist what you said,well,I'm going to judge your president as an evil man too. Rolling Eyes

Diana · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 494 Location: Guam, USA

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

According to your words,I also could Judge your president as evil because he started Iraq war,invaded Iraq,killed Iraqi citizens,tortured prisoners.

Diana · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 494 Location: Guam, USA

Somuch, go back and read my posts carefully. I said that there are no Chamorros protesting the fact that we don't vote for US President BECAUSE self-determination is more important to us. Perhaps, you should look up the concept of self-determination to learn why that is more important. This is now the fourth time I told you this!

The people of Puerto Rico are also American citizens like us, and they also don't vote for US President. I also don't see the people of Puerto Rico protesting on the streets about the fact that they also can't vote for US President. Yet, do you see me calling the people of Puerto Rico as having servile minds????? Rolling Eyes

Only YOU would brand an entire race of people in a negative manner simply because you can't even understand the concept of self-determination and its importance. I already told you 4 times that the Chamorro people feel that self-determination is very important, and they are even educating themselves on it. Who in the world are YOU to tell my people what is important and what is NOT important??? Who gave YOU authority to decide for my people to tell us what is important???? What ARROGANCE you have! What makes you think YOU know what is best for my people?? What makes YOU think that it is best for us to put aside our decision for self-determination? Somuch, get rid of your arrogant attitude of thinking that you know what is best for the Chamorro people! Only my people know what is best for themselves.

I suggest you study the concept of self-determination and learn its importance. Then maybe you can understand why even the Palestinians are asking for self-determination.

so much · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 35

I'm afraid the one who don't exactly know the concept of self-determination is you Diana.You don't even know the self-determination which the Palestinians are asking for is not the same one you have got.In other words,yours is fake,just as your fake freedom.The Palestinians can make deal with other nations,you can't.They can make decisions to buy weapons from other countries,you can't.Most things they can do but you can't,is that your self-determination?You Chamorros have no power to make decisions for yourself,how sad it is.