Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Blossom]

My dictionary says that a convention is a way of behaving that is considered to be correct or polite by most people in a society. But it gives the example:
It's just a social convention that men don't wear skirts.

But that is not because it is impolite for men to wear skirts.

So what is the difference between convention and politeness?

[asterix]

A covention is a general agreement,or custom, especially on social behaviour, by implicit consent of the majority.
Politeness is courteousness, good manners, refined or elegant behaviour, cultivated or cultured behaviour.
Behaviour, such as saying, "Please" and "Thank you", used to be conventional but is now in decline, along with such polite gestures as a man allowing a woman to precede him through a doorway, or holding open doors for a woman or a person of advanced age. On public transport a man would, at one time, give up his seat for a woman, especially a pregnant or old woman, or someone physically handicapped.
The advent of the women's liberation movement has been responsible for some of this decline.
So, in answer to your question; not every convention is polite but often breaking one of those conventions is considered impolite.
As for the example of men not wearing skirts. In Scotland you will see men in kilts (a kind of skirt, no matter what the Scots say) every day.

[admiral]

Fixed conventions are behaviours, like wearing suits in a meeting with your business partner, or to call somebody e.g. "dear Misses Stone" at the beginning and "yours sincerely" at the end.

Politeness is when you behave kind towards people, not being rude etc.
_________________
If I say "I love you" to someone, then I also have to say "I love inside you everyone else. I love the whole world because of you. I also love myself inside you"

[advoca]

You have raised a very interesting point, Blossom.

There are conventions, customs, practices, traditions, manners, and they are all closely connected, so much so it is difficult to separate them.

A convention is a way of behaving that is considered to be correct or polite by most people in a society. When you talk about a convention you mean that it is the customary practice, and there is a general agreement by the majority.

In society there are social rules and these refer to social conventions commonly adhered to in a society. These rules are not written in law or otherwise formalized. It is the social rules that tell people what is normal behaviour for any specific category. Thus, social rules tell a woman how to behave in a womanly manner, and a man, how to be manly.
However, there are many conventions. For example, it is conventional for women to wear their hair long and for men to have short hair. But this convention is not obligatory. Some men have long hair and a some women have their hair cut short.

It is conventional for men to wear trousers and women to wear skirts. A man who wears a skirt is considered unconventional, although it is conventional to wear a particular kind of skirt in Scotland (It has a tartan pattern on the cloth and is in a special style). Men�s shirts and jackets button to the right, but women�s blouses, sometimes also called shirts, and jackets button to the left. This is purely convention.

Women wear knickers or panties but men wear underpants. They are very similar but it is conventional to use these names for what is essentially the same garment.

It is conventional to cover all primary and secondary sexual genitalia with sufficiently opaque materials. You can wear a transparent blouse if you wish but it is unconventional.

It is conventional in many countries to wear special clothing when one is in mourning. In some countries it is conventional to wear white clothing but in others one wears black clothes. It is also conventional to put flowers on a grave. There is no rule about it. You could put chocolates of you wish. Taking flowers to a patient in hospital, and giving presents on birthdays are also conventions.

It is conventional to say thank you if you are given something. You don�t have to, but it is conventional politeness. It is politeness when a man gives up his seat to a lady in a crowded bus or tube train, and to let her pass through a door first. A convention, a custom, a practice, or simply good manners?

In France men will kiss each other on the cheek. A convention, a custom, a practice, or a tradition? In the USA it is conventional to tip the waiter at a restaurant. In China, there is no need to tip waiters. In America it is the custom for men to put their hand on their heart when the National Anthem is played. Convention, custom, or a practice?

But what about eating moon cakes in the Autumn festival? Is that a tradition, a custom, or a convention? Hard to say. It is a convention for Chinese restaurants in America to give away fortune cookies after a meal. Is this a convention or a custom? When you drink alcohol with a fried many people say, �Cheers,� or "Ganbei." Convention, custom, or a practice? You make a toast at banquets. Convention, custom, or tradition?

When two Chinese people meet they say, "Ni hao" (You well?). When two Brits meet they say "How do you do?" Americans will say "Hi." Convention, custom, tradition, or simple politeness?

In England cars are driven on the left, and in America they are driven on the right. Convention, custom, or a practice? There is no law that says you must do this and if you drive on the wrong side of the road you will not be charged with breaking the law, you will be charged with dangerous driving.

You don�t have to write dear at the beginning of a letter or yours faithfully when you have no intention of being faithful, or to mean it when you end with yours sincerely or yours truly. Convention, custom, or a practice?

There are many conventions when writing English. For example, starting a sentence with a capital letter, using a capital letter for I, using a capital letter for the names of countries. The world will not fall apart if you write sentences like this:
i am going to america in november.
But if you do write like this then most people will think you are ignorant about the conventions.

And there are no such words as gonna, wanna, lemme, dunno. However, people speak like this, so it is correct to write:
�Watcha gonna do this weekend� said Jack to me.
�I dunno,� I replied.

But it is not correct (and certainly not conventional) to write: anybody wanna tell me what they�re gonna do this weekend. lemme know cos i�m interested.

You are at liberty to write like this and there will be no penalty. However, you will irritate pedantic old codgers like me, and many people will think you are ignorant about the basic conventions of English.

You can see that there are conventions, customs, practices, traditions, and manners, and they are all closely connected, so much so it is difficult to separate them.