Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[fw]

Hello everyone.

I feel Sentence #1 and #2 are both natural, while some of my friends insist Sentence #2 is natural but that Sentence #1 is not.

1. I got my bonus, so I bought my brother a fully automatic camera he had long wanted.
2. I got my bonus, so I bought my brother the fully automatic camera he had long wanted.

Question:
(1) Is Sentence #1 grammatically correct and is it natural English?
(2) If it is, what is the difference in meaning between Sentence #1 and #2?

Best regards,
fw

[Kristea]

FW -

Sentence #1 - Technically not incorrect, but it is not natural to my ear. Using "a camera" and then noting that it is a specific camera doesn't work for me.

Sentence #2 - Far more natural, I think. The determiner "the" is usually, and nearly exclusively, used to comment on things when the speaker and the listener have a shared sense of an object. (Think about asking for "a book" and "the book." If you ask me for "a book," you could get anything. If you ask me for "the book," you and I probably know which book you want.)

Hope that make sense - Kristi
_________________
"That man is a success who has lived well, laughed often and loved much." R.L. Stevenson

[Hiroaki Sone]

Hi, sorry to come right out like this, but I've just come upon this thread, and found the issue interesting. If you could enlighten me a bit more, Kristea, I would be much obliged.

With regard to #1, what about if the listener did not know whatsoever that the speaker's brother had wanted the camera for a long time. What if the they hadn't shared the knowledge? How about, say, the speaker introduced the fact to the listerner, if you will?

Thanks in advance, Kristea.

Hiro/ Sendai, Japan
_________________
JH7JHH/ First Class ham radio operator. N9COW in U.S.

[Kristea]

Hey -

Given your potential alterations on context I am inclined to agree. By removing the phrase/notion of the camera being "long wanted" the "a" wouldn't sound as out of place. However, I stang by the determiner "the" being used when a specific thing is being discussed.

I am a middle school ESL teacher, and I must say I enjoy this level of discussion of grammar. Thanks for making me revisit my initial response.

- Kristi
_________________
"That man is a success who has lived well, laughed often and loved much." R.L. Stevenson

[Hiroaki Sone]

Hi, Kristea.

Me, again --- Hiro.

I'm not a native speaker of English, but I would rather say "a" than "the" if I will deliver it as new information. Would "the" be used in the same circustances as well?

Same here, Kristea. I sometimes try to look at English as analytically as any so I would later simply the findings. You could use the simplified knowledge as basis for speaking/writing natural English with ease.

Hiro/ Sendai, Japan
_________________
JH7JHH/ First Class ham radio operator. N9COW in U.S.

[Kristea]

Hiro -

"The" could be used in either situation I suppose. I would avoid using "a" for known info. however.

Have a good day and nice talking to you - kristi
_________________
"That man is a success who has lived well, laughed often and loved much." R.L. Stevenson