Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Marrion]

I am sorry but I have a question.

[1] A large percentage of women is/are.......
[2] The percentage of women is/are........
[3] A large percentage of the apple is/are rotten.
[4] The percentage of the apple is/are rotten.
[5] A large percentage of oxygen is/are.......

==============================
[6] large percentages of women is/are.......
[7] The percentages of women is/are........
[8] large percentages of the apple is/are rotten.
[9] The percentage of the apple is/are rotten.
[10] large percentages of oxygen is/are.......

From above, which one do I have to choose, "is" or "are"?

[gulius]

1. are.
2. is (i think)
3. is.
4. is.
5. is.
6. are.
7. are.
8. are.
9. is.
10. are (but i think is can be used as well)

I accept no responsability for any wrong answers.

[Marrion]

I am sorry.. but I want to have responsible and correct answers.

[KazAV]

10 would be are since percentages is plural.

[Meadowlark]

Hello Marrion,

The subject of each of these sentences is either "percentage" or "percentages". The predicate (verb) must agree with the subject. Both must either be singular or plural: "Percentage IS"; "Percentages ARE".

The correct choices are:


[1] A large percentage of women is
[2] The percentage of women is
[3] A large percentage of the apple is
[4] The percentage of the apple is
[5] A large percentage of oxygen is

==============================
[6] large percentages of women are
[7] The percentages of women are
[8] large percentages of the apple are rotten
[9] The percentage of the apple is rotten
[10] large percentages of oxygen are

I realize that number one "sounds wrong", but it is grammatically correct. You will often see incorrect usage in cases such as this simply because it is more natural to say "women are", however if you wish to be grammatically correct use "is".

[Marrion]

I have seen that "large percentage of + plural nouns" is used with "plural verbs" and "the percentage of + plural nouns" is used with "singular verbs".

I don't know why... so I want to know why


And can "percetages of" be with "countable singular nouns" or "uncountable nouns"?


KazAV, Meadowlark! Thank you very much.

May you be in happiness!!

[Meadowlark]

Dear Marrion,

The problem is that what is correct "by the book" may not be what is actually practiced in common usage. In the news, in print, and on television you will see and hear many things that are not strictly "correct", but which are acceptable because their use is so widespread that to most people anything else would seem incorrect! If correct use doesn't sound grammatically correct people will adjust their usage habits to make themselves more comfortable with the sound of their language.

An example of this is the use of "myself" instead of "me". You will often hear people say something like, "John took Lisa and myself for a ride in his new car." instead of "John took Lisa and me for a ride in his new car."

Many people are so acutely aware of the incorrectness of "me" when used as the subject ("Lisa and me went for a ride in John's new car." is incorrect) that they've developed an aversion to using the word "me" even when it would be correct (as the object of a verb or preposition). People that would never have used "myself" instead of "me" in the past are beginning to use it because that's what they hear around them and "me" no longer sounds right to them.

You will find there are different opinions about what is correct, even among experts. Language is not a science. It's a method of communication that is constantly evolving, as are we, and as is the world we live in. There will always be a small "gray area" of uncertainty because language is not static and all we can do is try to use it as well as we are able.

The best advice I can offer is to learn as much as you can about the many rules that are available to guide you, but always keep in mind that the best strategy when one is in a situation where the use of correct grammar is essential is to know how to AVOID using phrases or words that sound wrong when used correctly, but which are technically wrong as they are popularly used. This can only be learned over time. Happily, in all but the most serious of situations it is quite likely that this type of minor error will be undetected by many and easily disregarded by most others. As you can see from the posts here, when attempting to answer questions such as yours many English-speaking people find it hard to say definitively what is correct and what is not.

Questions are always welcome, but absolute answers may not always be forthcoming!

Best wishes!

[Marrion]

^0^// I know what you mean.

The reason which I know exactly is because I have taught the grammar to my students.

Anyway, your advice helps me very much.


May God bless you!!

[Marrion]

[1] A small percentage of them are..

But
[2] The percetage of them is/are.....

I know to use "are" at [1].

But at [2] which one is correct, "is" or "are"?

[Meadowlark]

The percentage of them IS . . . although it would be much better to simply say "The percentage is . . ."

It is important to note that the phrase "the percentage of them" is not one which you would use very often. You would be more likely to use "those" as in, "The percentage of those using Brand X is greater than those using Brand Y." (In this sentence "the percentage of" is understood in the second portion and need not be repeated.)

If you provide complete sentences instead of phrases it will be easier to give you a correct answer. Phrases can be constructed which pose grammatical questions to which there is no clear answer because the phrases themselves are so awkward sounding (in spite of being grammatically correct) that they are rarely used, if ever.

Please keep in mind that one must determine the point where the study of "usage" and grammatical rules is in danger of becoming isolated from the practical use of language in speaking and writing.

What is the source of the questions you have asked? Knowing the reason for questions will make a great deal of difference to me in terms of how much time I am willing to give here. I do not mean to be rude. I'm simply trying to determine what value to place on my contributions.

:-)

[Marrion]

[Meadowlark]

Hello everyone,

I was frustrated by my inability to answer Marrion�s question well so I did a search on the internet to see if I could find data to support my instinctive knowledge. Here is some information I found which I believe will be of help to students of English:

From http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/060.html -

Agreement by Proximity

Sometimes the noun that is adjacent to the verb can exert more influence than the noun that is the grammatical subject.

Selecting a verb in a sentence like "A variety of styles (has been/have been) in vogue for the last year" can be tricky. The traditional rules require has been, but the plural sense of the noun phrase presses for have been.

While 59 percent of experts insist on the singular verb in this sentence, 22 percent actually prefer the plural verb and another 19 percent say that either has or have is acceptable, meaning that 41 percent find the plural verb with a singular grammatical subject to be acceptable.

In a sentence like "Either John or his brothers are bringing the dessert", the verb can�t agree with both parts of the subject. Some people believe that the verb should agree with the closer of the two subjects. This is called Agreement by Proximity.
~*~*~*~*~

So although there is no universally accepted rule to guide you in this matter, you may wish to rely on the principle of Agreement by Proximity and choose a plural verb when a plural noun is directly adjacent to the verb.

Let's take a look at the examples from the internet to see if they follow this principle:

[1] What percentage of women return to work after having a baby?
Plural noun adjacent to plural verb

[2] What percentage of them are wearing glasses?
Plural pronoun adjacent to plural verb

[3] The percentage of people who are left-handed is small - only about 10%.
Plural noun NOT adjacent to verb (the form of the verb is then determined by the subject of the sentence which is the word "percentage")

[4] The percentage of women who work has risen steadily.
Plural noun NOT adjacent to verb (the form of the verb is then determined by the subject of the sentence which is the word "percentage")

[5] A large percentage of women are not only . . .
Plural noun adjacent to plural verb

[6] It is found that only a small percentage of women are involved in the film industry and work in technical careers.
Plural noun adjacent to plural verb

[7] What percentage of women are represented on local land boards and trusts in New South Wales?
Plural noun adjacent to plural verb

[8] What percentage of women work?
Plural noun adjacent to plural verb

[9] What percentage of children were absent?
Plural noun adjacent to plural verb

The principle of Agreement by Proximity has been followed in every one of these examples. Although the experts are still divided in their opinions, we can see that current usage clearly supports the principle of Agreement by Proximity.

I hope some of you may find this helpful.

Best wishes,

Meadowlark

P.S. If you encounter a question about the use of "the percentage of" while taking a standardized test it might be wise to use a singular verb even when the verb is adjacent to a plural noun. Standardized tests typically follow the opinion of the majority of experts. Fortunately, it is unlikely that such tests will include questions containing language which could possibly result in the correctness of an answer choice being challenged, so the probability of seeing this type of question is slim.