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'How' and 'in what condition'

 
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ShoHiro



Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:33 am    Post subject: 'How' and 'in what condition' Reply with quote

Hello!

I would like to know the difference between 'how' and 'in what condition/state'. Which is better, (b) or (c), as the corresponding interrogatives to the sentences (a)?

(1) a. He drank the whiskey neat.
b. How did he drink the whiskey?
c. In what condition did he drink the whiskey?
(2) a. John returned the book unread.
b. How did he return the book?
c. In what condition did he return the book?
(3) a. She wore the apron dirty.
b. How did she wear the apron?
c. In what condition did she wear the apron?
(4) a. He ate the fish whole.
b. How did he eat the fish?
c. In what condition did he eat the fish?

Sincerely,
Hiro
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ShoHiro



Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:42 am    Post subject: In addition Reply with quote

(5) a. He flopped limp onto his back.
b. How did he flop onto his back?
c. In what condition did he flop onto his back?
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advoca



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 422
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would like to know the difference between 'how' and 'in what condition/state'. Which is better, (b) or (c), as the corresponding interrogatives to the sentences (a)?

(1) He drank the whiskey neat.
a. How did he drink the whiskey?
b. In what condition did he drink the whiskey?

(2) John returned the book unread.
a. How did he return the book?
b. In what condition did he return the book?

(3) She wore the apron dirty.
a. How did she wear the apron?
b. In what condition did she wear the apron?

(4) He ate the fish whole.
a. How did he eat the fish?
b. In what condition did he eat the fish?

(5) He flopped limp onto his back.
a. How did he flop onto his back?
b. In what condition did he flop onto his back?


In example 1, How to refers to the whiskey. In what condition refers to the person who drank the whiskey.

So, you would say:
He drank the whiskey neat. (That is how he drank it.)
(But you do not know what condition he was in so you cannot reply. Perhaps he was drunk? Perhaps he was tired? Perhaps he was in a good mood?)

Similarly:
John returned the book unread. (That is how he returned it.)

He ate the fish whole. (That is how he ate it.)

She wore the apron dirty is a strange sentence. Its meaning is unclear. Was she dirty or was the apron dirty. If it said, �She wore the dirty apron� it would be clear. Answer : She wore the dirty apron. (But you do not know what condition she was in)

He flopped limp onto his back is also a strange sentence. I assume he flopped limply onto his back. Again, you do not know what condition he was in so you cannot reply. Perhaps he was drunk? Perhaps he was tired?

Does this help? Does this answer your questions? I hope so.
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ShoHiro



Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello!

Thank you very much for answering my questions. Yes! I would like to know what 'how' and 'in what condition' refer to. I understand you. "In what condition" means an agent who act something, doesn't it? Then, what about the following sentence?

(6) He'll come out of it just fine. (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)

Is the corresponding interrogative not "How will he come out of it?" but "In what condition will he come out of it?"?

The example (5) is cited from Angels & Demons by Dan Brown.
The original sentence is:

(7) Grasping the man's shoulders, he rolled the body. As he did, the loose rags seemed to slough away like dead flesh. The man flopped limp onto his back.

Sincerely,
Katsu
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advoca



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 422
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The example (5) is cited from Angels & Demons by Dan Brown.
The original passage is:
Grasping the man's shoulders, he rolled the body. As he did, the loose rags seemed to slough away like dead flesh. The man flopped limp onto his back.


Hi ShoHiro,

Here is an example of the confusion that is created by quoting out of context. The sentence, �The man flopped limp onto his back� is more meaningful when given with the full passage. But even so, the sentence �He flopped limp on his back� in isolation is just as I said, a strange sentence, and the passage is somewhat loosely drawn. The author says �rolled the body. This implies that the man was dead, in which case it is not good writing to say, �The man flopped limp onto his back.� It would have been better to say �The corpse flopped limp onto its back,� or �The dead man flopped limp onto his back.�

So, how did he flop onto his back? Answer: limply
In what condition did he flop onto his back? From the limited information in the passage, we do not know; possibly dead.
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ShoHiro



Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, advoca!

Thank you very much again! I'm sorry that I didn't tell the context.

The dead man is supposed to be limp, so it is natural to say, "The dead man flopped limp onto his back," isn't it? If so, the following setences are different, aren't they?

(1) The dead man flopped limp onto his back.
(2) The dead man flopped limply onto his back.

I would like to ask you one more question. What is the interrogative corresponding to the italics limp in (1)?

Have a nice day!
ShoHiro
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ShoHiro



Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry. The last sentence is not good. I would like to ask as follows:

What is the interrogative when you would like to ask the itlics limp in (1)?
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advoca



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 422
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me try and explain

Limp can be used as a verb.
I injured my foot and I was forced to limp.
All afternoon I was limping.


Limp can be used as a noun.
Because of my injured foot I had a limp.

You can use limp as a graded adjective.
I do not like men with limp handshakes.
Washing your hair with a cheap shampoo can leave your hair limp and dull looking.


If someone is limp, their body has no strength and is not moving, for example because they are asleep, unconscious, or perhaps dead. This is also using the word as a graded adjective.
He lifted the limp body onto the bed.
I hit him hard and he went limp.


But you can also use the word as a graded adverb + a verb.
There was no wind and the flags were hanging limply.

In the example you have given (The dead man flopped _____ onto his back) flopped is a verb and to describe a verb you must use an adverb, in this case limply. You cannot use two verbs and you cannot use a verb + a noun.

The dead man flopped limp onto his back, is simply ungrammatical.

I hope this clears this up for you.
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ShoHiro



Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Advoca!

Thank you very much many times! I'm sorry I can't respond your comment right now. I don't know why, but I cannot reach this page because of "critical error."

I believe I understand you. "The dead man flopped limp onto his back" is ungrammatical, because limp is not adverb but adjective. But I think this word as secondary predicate as in (1).

(1) a. He ate the meat raw.
b. The man burned her alive.
c. The man went to bed angry.

In these sentences, raw, alive and angry can appear although they are adjectives. It is very difficult for me, a non-native English speaker, to understand what secondary predicates mean. I thought the interrogatives corresponding to (1b) and (1c) are "in what condition," because "how" is used when you ask the manner about an event. The manner is usually asked using adverbs, isn't it? So I would like to know the difference between "how" and "in what condition." I understand the difference between them through your explanation.

Sincerely,
ShoHiro
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