Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[flying_pig319]

***NOTE: Although I've tried to keep my historical facts as factual as possible, I AM trying to argue for a certain side here (guess which one), so I will use my honest opinion (including those biases like we all have) in arguing for my view, and most (but NOT all) of the information I put on here will give the benefit to *that* side.
Please be aware that this is just my view, although of course, I believe that it is the correct view, so you won't get too much apology



Many people ask me and I see so many false statements on here, I'm going to clear this up once and for all!

A brief history:
A long time ago, the entire Middle East region was known as "Palestine". Jews and Arabs lived there TOGETHER. Technically, both Jews and Arabs are Palestinians, but only Arabs are ever called that (pretty sneaky of the Arabs, to make the world think that only they are the Palestinians).
Jews have been murdered etc. for thousands of years. It's awful luck. After the Holocaust, Britain decided the Jews had had enough torture, and decided to give them a tiny piece of land that no one could bother them on. There was one problem: It was surrounded by Arab countries. Bad idea.
Anyway, so now there's a new piece of land. I had told you, Jews and Arabs had both shared the land before, so there were some Arabs in the new Israel, and there were some Jews in the new Jordan (Arabian land), right?
Well. The Arabs in Israel were given full civil rights. That's right. Pretty generous. However, the Jordanian Jews were all killed. Yeah.
Not very fair.
Recently, the Arab nations have made many "land-for-peace" sort of trades with Israel. Clearly, it's not peace, if you have to give up some of your land to get it (by the way, the Arab nations already have TONS more land that Israel has, anyway).

About Hamas:
Hamas a very mixed group. On the one hand, they help homeless Arabs etc., a very kind gesture On the other hand, they bomb Israeli schoolbusses. Not quite as nice. Make your own conclusions.

About Israel and bombing:
Israel has NEVER bombed any Arab building to kill the people in it. Whenever they bomb, they warn the people beforehand, telling them to leave for their safety. Isreal does not like to take lives, even Arab lives.
This is not true of the Arab countries. They do not mind taking Jewish lives, and bomb Jewish schoolbusses and shoppingcenters etc. daily.

Please feel free to post replies or disagreements, and I'll be sure to answer you, but please be polite about it. Don't hate for hate's sake.

Thanks for reading!!!

[ltp-008]

Middle East is most conflicting region in the world,small Middle East refers to the region which includes Israel and Palestine,is it right?grand Middle East includes most Arabic countrie which are connected together through Europe ,Afrcia and Asia.Now in grand Middle East,Afghanistan and Iraq have been freed by coalition forces,If the new democratic countries success ,the grand Middle East will have a bright future although Iran is causing some trouble in the region.

Let's focus on the small Middle East-Israel and Palestien,Israel ancestors had lived in Middle East for a long time,somehow they fleed to other countries,After WWT Israel established its own country,but the Palestine refused to admit its existence,after many land -for -peace trades,Palestine Fahta authority finally admit Irael exist,most Palestiens want to live with Irael side by side peaceful.But Hamas and other Islamic extremists don't want to live with Israel side by side perceful,they want to destroy Islael,this is the main cause of troble in Middle East.

When Israel is attacked by Hamas and other Islamic extremists,Israel has the right to defend itself as long as it does its best to avoid the injures of innocent people.

[flying_pig319]

Israel ancestors had lived in Middle East for a long time,somehow they fleed to other countries<< Right. Just like any ancient civilization, after a while the people sort of spread out. For the Jews, this is still going on (people leaving their home in Israel because it's unsafe. This is called the Diaspora.

After WWT Israel established its own country<< Yes (or rather, Britain did for the Jews, since Britain had control of the land over there)

but the Palestine refused to admit its existence,after many land -for -peace trades,Palestine Fahta authority finally admit Irael exist, <<yes

most Palestiens want to live with Irael side by side peaceful.<<I don't know any Palestinians personally, but I believe that they are good people and yeah, they probably would want to live in a peaceful existence with the Jews (just like most Jews want a peaceful existence with the Palestinians)

But Hamas and other Islamic extremists don't want to live with Israel side by side perceful,they want to destroy Islael,this is the main cause of troble in Middle East. <<yes- bingo.

When Israel is attacked by Hamas and other Islamic extremists,Israel has the right to defend itself as long as it does its best to avoid the injures of innocent people.<< yes. [/quote]

Thanks for reading

[flying_pig319]

[hani]

Oh nice analyses man>>>>>

this is first time i read like this explanation of mid-east conflict.

i think u seem 2 explain 2 ur friend or little boys and tell them

like these *beep*.

anyway i may back 2 talk 2 u >>>>>

!
_________________
Once upon the time
I was looking for you

I never do a crime
By living to love you

[flying_pig319]

Um, okay...
I couldn't really tell whether that was a compliment or an insult...
But thanks..?

[flying_pig319]

Actually, yeah.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't a compliment, since I saw your other post:
"oh >> israel government is always lie at people in the world. they kill poor palestinians with cold blood"...
So yeah.
Well, thanks for reading anyway.
You're entitled to your own views, I guess

[ieltsinsider]

I think that the Israelis and the Palestinians are as bad as each other. "You did this to us, so we're gonna do this to you." What makes it worse is that each side has a 'victim' mentality - and encourages its own people to have this mentality. Israel - "Oh, Jewish people were victims in WW2." Palestine - "Oh, nobody really cares about us." Move on!

[flying_pig319]

1) Study up on your ancient history; you'll see that the Jews were victims of far more than just WW2- that's hardly the tip of the iceberg. What about Egypt? Assyria? The Medes? Babylon? Rome? Spain? Portugal? I could go on...
2) Yeah, each side DOES have a victim mentality (I'm not so sure this is a bad thing). And can you blame them? But the problem is how we deal with our upsetness... And it is NOT by using the Jews as a scapegoat (as so many cultures have done throughout history).
3) Thanks for reading/commenting

[ieltsinsider]

C'mon Flying Pig - I thought you'd see that WW2 was just one example! Both sides can cite numerous examples of injustice - precisely the problem! This is the victim mentality - citing past injustices and not moving forward. As you correctly say, the problem is how do both sides deal with their feelings? I would suggest that dealing with them by killing members of the other sides is not constructive. And just to be absolutely clear, I have NEVER suggested using the Jews as a scapegoat. As I said before, I think both sides are behaving equally badly.

[flying_pig319]

[ieltsinsider]

So often I find myself agreeing with parts of a post and disagreeing with other parts.
Actually, a Jewish Empire has been heard of. Hitler, various nasty Arab regimes, and Iran (most recently just a few days ago) have all described the USA as the Jewish empire (or used words to that effect - e.g. Zionist Conspiracy). I think that they're talking rubbish (to use a polite word). On the other hand, an Islamic Empire is only aimed for by extremists like Bin Laden, not by most Muslims. One of the reasons that Israel has managed to survive is that the Arabs have been divided.
No, I wouldn't interrupt at that point. I do believe that the Israelis want to be left in peace. I believe that most Palestinians do too.
As for the bombs, this is where the 'yes and no' bit comes in. Remember that when the Israelis were trying to become independent, they did use bombs against civilians without warning. There have plenty of similar instances since then, though I'd agree that the Palesinians have done it far more often.
I agree with your last two paragraphs. It's not easy to do, but it has to be done. Wouldn't it be nice if, in the future, Israeli and Palestinians kids learnt how their parents had put terrible historical events behind them and learnt to live peacefully? (Insert 'idealist' emoticon!)
As an aside, I recently read a very interesting thesis that the current xenophobia in China, Russia, Arab countries and Iran is the result of their all being invaded by the Mongols hundreds of years ago. If true, what an historical legacy! (Insert philosophical emoticon!)

[flying_pig319]

[Confido]

[flying_pig319]

Hah, indeed, follow the money.
In America, at least.