Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

pippolino · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 8

As a jew, I can tell you that there is no conflict. I really have nothing against arabs and I really do not understand why palestinian refugees cannot come back to their homes in Israel. Maybe not all, but at least those who did not succeed in getting naturilized in their residence countries and live as second class citizens,like those in Lebanon for example.I really do not care if my neighbours are arabs,anyway so many non jews came to Israel from Russia,yet arabs cannot come back,it is absurd. Not only that, a convert to judaism has priority over an arab to this land.I really do not understand this logic.

Obviously to bring palestinians back would be a disaster under current conditions.But at least we can express our intention to do so in the long run and hope they calm down in the meantime.We would never calm them down by demolishing their buildings and killing their children.

I have a feeling that we are all tricked into this dirty game.Jews do not hate arabs and arabs do not hate jews.So what the hell is going on?

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

pippolino · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 8

Israel is far from its 1948 situation,it is now a fully developed country and with a very strong economy.So instead of bringing some strange populations based only on their religion like the aetiopians to Israel,or converts from Thailand,just let the refugees come back and finish this conflict.The palestinians from Lebanon hate us guts and they live in appalling conditions,not to mention that they are mistreated by the lebanese themselves.If I am not wrong they originate from the Galilei.At the end of the day,they are only 300,000 people.Is it such a big concern?

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

nexrun · Joined: 02 Sep 2006 Posts: 2 Location: North America

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

pippolino · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 8

Here are my comments:

"Palestinians are welcome to live in Israel, they would have full civil rights if they moved there"

That's a joke. By Israeli law they have no right to return,they are just stuck whereever they are. What's even more suprising,if you are a palestinian but naturilized American citizen you would need a visa to come to Israel.

"However, the Jews would be killed if they moved to many Palestinian nations"

To your information,many jews do very successful businesses in Arab countries including Syria.They have no problem what's so ever as long as they stay out of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

"about originating from wherever, BOTH GROUPS OF PEOPLE ORIGINATED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST"

Etiopeans have similar rituals but there is no genetic link between us and them,actually they are converted once in Israel.Many immigrants from former USSR have nothing to do with jewishness by blood. Many converts as well emigrated. The black hebrews from Dimona have no jewish blood. Actually as Jew I am probably more related to palestinians than to these people.

As far as repartiating the palestinians I would probably would have considered it a very stupid solution 30 years ago. But today we have a very strong haredi baby boomer community that can easily compete with the palestinian birth rate. I don't think it is a demographic threat, so I just sugget letting them come back gradually and only on humanitarian basis. That is only palestinians that do not have another citizenship.

"I suggest you study up on your history before you decide that it's all dumb"

I have family members who fought against the arabs. I can tell you there is nothing to be proud about,its sheer chance if you are alive and its totally useless. I feel pitty for the boys who died in Lebanon,the Israeli policitians should have send their boys on the front line or even go there themselves. And yes I think it is very very dumb to believe this ilussion about the conflict. Nothing was achieved.

I would also like to see some palestinian on this board.

pippolino · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 8

By the way,I assume everybody is jewish on this board.I would rather see some Palestinian come on board and hear his side.

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

commmn ,flying_pig319....We can see how disgusting and bad treatment for the palastinean by Israel police in the Rafah check point and others check points to go to their homes....!!!...
also , please read this:
The solution is the expulsion of the Arab enemy
By: Tal Yemin-Volvovitch ,September 10, 2004
Last night, for the first time, 100 activists with the party headed by right-wing extremist Baruch Marzel gathered in Jerusalem . In this first meeting, the party's basic principles were unveiled, which include expelling the Arab enemy from all Israeli territories and dismantling the separation wall, which has created �Jewish ghettos,� according to the head of the party.
Leaders of the party said that expelling the Arab enemy will solve most of Israel 's problems. �Expelling the Arabs will put an end to terrorism and will reduce the threat of war,� said party founder Hen Ben-Eliyahu. �The economy will also flourish, and the level of personal and national security will rise.
Expulsion will solve all social problems.�
source: maariv date September 10,2004.
Ban on selling lands in Karmiel to Jews only
By: Jackie Houri, Haaretz ,date : september 7,2004.
The Haifa District Court today ordered the Israel Lands Administration (ILA) to either freeze a tender for building plots in the Givat Makosh neighborhood in Karmiel or give Israeli Arabs the opportunity to participate. The tender is for lands owned by the Jewish National Fund (JNF) and thus limited to Jews only. The Arab Center for Alternative Planning and the Association for Civil Rights in Israel filed a petition to abolish this condition. The petitioners say that the JNF, which owns the land, justifies the ban by an agreement between it and the state of Israel which prohibits the sale of its land to Arabs.
Israeli Arabs prohibited from entry
By: Aaron Tahauko
�I can't allow you to enter the kindergarten because you're Arabs, even if you're just doing your job.� This was the response that met two Israeli Arabs when they reached a kindergarten in Jerusalem to deliver supplies as part of their job.
Shadi Qassem and Ahmed Fadila, both 23-year-old residents of the village of Tira in the Triangle, went to the Gan Hannah kindergarten on 8 Iceland Street in Jerusalem . The two work as sales representatives for the al-Ghani Company, which markets and delivers equipment and furniture to kindergartens and schools. When they asked to enter the kindergarten to deliver supplies, the guard stopped them. They say the guard told them that they couldn't enter the kindergarten because they were Israeli Arabs. www.nana.co.il dated july 18,2004.
They don't want Arabs
By: Emunah Elon , dated June 27, 2004 from www.a7.org
Many civilized Israelis were shocked when they learned that an opinion poll conducted by the Center for National Security Studies at Haifa University found that 64% of the Jewish public in Israel believes that the state should encourage Israeli Arabs to emigrate. This means that 48% of Israeli citizens actually support the transfer of 20% of Israeli citizens.
why welcome to live in Israel !!!!
Palastinains want to live in their own land peacfully ,which they have been removed . they have been removed by force from their farms ,mosques and churches.. THEY WANT THEIR OWN STATE TO BE EXISIST.
I disagree with you , there are so many Jews family still living in Arab country and some dont like "disagree" with Israel :
A Jew in Yemen : We hate Israel because of the way it treats the Palestinians By: Gal Berger from www.nfc.co.il dated Decenber 19 , 2004:
Suleiman Saad al-Jaradi, a Jew living in Yemen , attacked Israel in an interview published on the Saudi Elaf website, which has close ties to the London-based al-Hayat . �Israelis have no religion, no Torah, and no morals,� he said.
Al-Jaradi lives in a community of 30 Jewish families in Raida, in the Omran province, about 120 km north of the capital of Sanaa. In the interview he talks about the community's way of life, particularly Jewish customs and religious traditions.
Al-Jaradi issued a scathing critique of Israel . �We hate Israel and Zionist because they kill Palestinians,� he said. �Zionists are not Jews. We don't go there, and we don't allow our children to go there.�
Yom Kippur: a Sephardic perspective By: Mati Shmueloff from www.haqada.org.il dated 25 September , 2004
...............The Sephardim in Israel , who emigrated from Arab countries after the establishment of the state of Israel , were forced to follow a painful path that continues to this day in different ways. That is why it is up to Ashkenazi Zionism to beg forgiveness by studying the methods of oppression as a means of atonement.
First: The Sephardim were forced to live in far-flung communities to take possession of the lands that the new state nationalized and confiscated from the Palestinians, some of them Israeli citizens...
Second: The Sephardim in Israel were forced to obliterate their Arab identity thanks to the propaganda campaigns of Ashkenazi Zionism....

Palestinian ninja By: Gil Karniel dated September 28,2004(The author is an observer with Machsom Watch.)
Are Palestinian women ninja turtles? Yes, this is how they are described at the Hawara checkpoint on the outskirts of Nablus . I know this because I heard a soldier calling a group of women wearing black veils by this name. The women, of course, did not answer. Apparently ninja movies are not common in Nablus . The soldier got angry and used a phrase often on the tongues of the soldiers at the checkpoints: �Hey girls.� This reminds me of what happens at Ben-Gurion Airport , when the inspector says, �All the girls head to Gate 6.� We taught one soldier the correct word for women in Arabic: niswan . Is this just to amuse the stern-faced inspectors and members of Machsom Watch?
�We were monsters� By: Chen Kotz-Bar November 26, 2004
In the same week that Capt. R. was indicted for shooting a 13-year-old girl near Rafah after she approached an Israeli army outpost, reserve soldiers and officers belonging to the Breaking the Silence movement met to discuss their service in the territories, focusing on friction with the Palestinian population
and more and more ....
what the palastinans want is their own land to start their own STATE ....very simple
by the way :I am from Riyadh , Saudi .
thank you flying_pig319 for reading ...woooowww too much , I know..
take care Smile

KMM

pippolino · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 8

a comment flying_pig319:

Jews in Jordan

There are no jews in Jordan,jews are present historically in Lebanon,Syria and Egypt

Just to convince you that palestinians cannot come back to their homes.Here is an article on the right of return of palestinians from the BBC :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3629923.stm

a comment for k.m.m:

your comments are totally out of line. Israeli Arabs are treated quite well in Israel, nearly as equal to Jewish citizens. It is total nonsense and
out of my topic. Actually among countries abusing arabs is your country and other corrupt governments in the middle east. My point was that time
has come that Israel make an act of reparation in front of palestinians refugees who are hopeless, a measure that would not endanger its jewish
demographic majority. Some efforts could be made to allievate life in the teritories. I know quite well the palestinian situation. I know very
well how we got here, not only because of Israel but also because in the teritories there was despair and poverty while the Fatah leaders
were driving limos in Switzerland.

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

I have to agree that KMM's posts were pretty hateful, though I wouldn't call him "totally out of line", because although his opinion is very offensive to you and I as Jews, he did state it politely and respectfully (or, as respectfully as these things can be posted).

About the article, it seems to be backing MY point of view:
It says that many Palestinians FLED their homes. In other words, they CHOSE to leave because of what was going on there.
It also says that letting the Palestinians back into Israel would be sacrificing Israel's state (why would you let the enemy into your country? Especially when you are not allowed into the enemy's country in the same way?)

About Jordan:
Yes!! There are no Jews in Jordan because THEY WERE ALL KILLED, like I said in the first place Razz

_________________
peace-monger

pippolino · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 8

If you wonder why palestinians fled. I do not want to make a sentimental argument about it. Read the following facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

By the way, jews never lived in Jordan, nor were they killed by them. Jordan as a matter of fact has been carved out by the British.