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jewish arab conflict ?!?!?!?!?!
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pippolino



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: jewish arab conflict ?!?!?!?!?! Reply with quote

As a jew, I can tell you that there is no conflict. I really have nothing against arabs and I really do not understand why palestinian refugees cannot come back to their homes in Israel. Maybe not all, but at least those who did not succeed in getting naturilized in their residence countries and live as second class citizens,like those in Lebanon for example.I really do not care if my neighbours are arabs,anyway so many non jews came to Israel from Russia,yet arabs cannot come back,it is absurd. Not only that, a convert to judaism has priority over an arab to this land.I really do not understand this logic.

Obviously to bring palestinians back would be a disaster under current conditions.But at least we can express our intention to do so in the long run and hope they calm down in the meantime.We would never calm them down by demolishing their buildings and killing their children.

I have a feeling that we are all tricked into this dirty game.Jews do not hate arabs and arabs do not hate jews.So what the hell is going on?
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flying_pig319



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: jewish arab conflict ?!?!?!?!?! Reply with quote

pippolino wrote:
As a jew, I can tell you that there is no conflict. I really have nothing against arabs and I really do not understand why palestinian refugees cannot come back to their homes in Israel. Maybe not all, but at least those who did not succeed in getting naturilized in their residence countries and live as second class citizens,like those in Lebanon for example.I really do not care if my neighbours are arabs,anyway so many non jews came to Israel from Russia,yet arabs cannot come back,it is absurd. Not only that, a convert to judaism has priority over an arab to this land.I really do not understand this logic.

Obviously to bring palestinians back would be a disaster under current conditions.But at least we can express our intention to do so in the long run and hope they calm down in the meantime.We would never calm them down by demolishing their buildings and killing their children.

I have a feeling that we are all tricked into this dirty game.Jews do not hate arabs and arabs do not hate jews.So what the hell is going on?


You're right, Jews do not hate Arabs, and Arabs do not hate Jews (speaking as a Jew myself). However, there IS valid conflict between the middle eastern GOVERNMENTS. This isn't to say that all Arabs/Jews are bad, but only to say that the country's government is doing something wrong.

Many other forums on this-- check them out.
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pippolino



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: end of conflict Reply with quote

Israel is far from its 1948 situation,it is now a fully developed country and with a very strong economy.So instead of bringing some strange populations based only on their religion like the aetiopians to Israel,or converts from Thailand,just let the refugees come back and finish this conflict.The palestinians from Lebanon hate us guts and they live in appalling conditions,not to mention that they are mistreated by the lebanese themselves.If I am not wrong they originate from the Galilei.At the end of the day,they are only 300,000 people.Is it such a big concern?
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flying_pig319



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: end of conflict Reply with quote

pippolino wrote:
Israel is far from its 1948 situation,it is now a fully developed country and with a very strong economy.So instead of bringing some strange populations based only on their religion like the aetiopians to Israel,or converts from Thailand,just let the refugees come back and finish this conflict.The palestinians from Lebanon hate us guts and they live in appalling conditions,not to mention that they are mistreated by the lebanese themselves.If I am not wrong they originate from the Galilei.At the end of the day,they are only 300,000 people.Is it such a big concern?


I could've interrupted you SO many times there, it's overwhelming. But let me just say this:
Yes, the Palestinians (or at least the Palestinian government) DOES hate Israel. And Israel DOES hate the Palestinian government. But there IS a reason for this- your posts suggest that you don't think so.
I'm not saying that the governments SHOULD hate each other, but there is at least a seed of reason for what's going on, and it IS a big concern.
I suggest you study up on your history before you decide that it's all dumb Smile

And about originating from wherever, BOTH GROUPS OF PEOPLE ORIGINATED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. This piece of information IS in agreement (by historians and other experts), it's just how the land should be split up that is the conflict.

Again, maybe read through some of the many other posts on this topic and develop a real opinion before you state so strongly that it's all hogwash.

Try: "Here's what's happening in the Middle East" (by me)
or: "Israeli children send gifts to Lebanese children" (by Mariam)
Both of these go very deeply into the subject, and I'd say they're good resources for learning others' honest opinions and developing one of your own.
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nexrun



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: North America

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: jewish arab conflict ?!?!?!?!?! Reply with quote

pippolino wrote:

I have a feeling that we are all tricked into this dirty game.Jews do not hate arabs and arabs do not hate jews.So what the hell is going on?


As always war or any conflict has nothing to do with truth or facts. No matter what government you live under, there is a hidden agenda to any conflict between nations. The real one to watch is what will happen next in Iran, will there be an invasion of this country next? Twisted Evil
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flying_pig319



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: jewish arab conflict ?!?!?!?!?! Reply with quote

nexrun wrote:
pippolino wrote:

I have a feeling that we are all tricked into this dirty game.Jews do not hate arabs and arabs do not hate jews.So what the hell is going on?


As always war or any conflict has nothing to do with truth or facts. No matter what government you live under, there is a hidden agenda to any conflict between nations. The real one to watch is what will happen next in Iran, will there be an invasion of this country next? Twisted Evil


What is WITH everyone saying that there's no real conflict?
There IS a real conflict. It still may not justify the killing of so many innocent people, but the conflict is valid nevertheless.
There may be a hidden agenda (especially under the Bush admin) but that's not all there is, and doesn't that count as a conflict as well?

Uuuurgh.
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k.m.m



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: end of conflict Reply with quote

flying_pig319 wrote:
pippolino wrote:
Israel is far from its 1948 situation,it is now a fully developed country and with a very strong economy.So instead of bringing some strange populations based only on their religion like the aetiopians to Israel,or converts from Thailand,just let the refugees come back and finish this conflict.The palestinians from Lebanon hate us guts and they live in appalling conditions,not to mention that they are mistreated by the lebanese themselves.If I am not wrong they originate from the Galilei.At the end of the day,they are only 300,000 people.Is it such a big concern?


I could've interrupted you SO many times there, it's overwhelming. But let me just say this:
Yes, the Palestinians (or at least the Palestinian government) DOES hate Israel. And Israel DOES hate the Palestinian government. But there IS a reason for this- your posts suggest that you don't think so.
I'm not saying that the governments SHOULD hate each other, but there is at least a seed of reason for what's going on, and it IS a big concern.
I suggest you study up on your history before you decide that it's all dumb Smile

And about originating from wherever, BOTH GROUPS OF PEOPLE ORIGINATED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. This piece of information IS in agreement (by historians and other experts), it's just how the land should be split up that is the conflict.

Again, maybe read through some of the many other posts on this topic and develop a real opinion before you state so strongly that it's all hogwash.

Try: "Here's what's happening in the Middle East" (by me)
or: "Israeli children send gifts to Lebanese children" (by Mariam)
Both of these go very deeply into the subject, and I'd say they're good resources for learning others' honest opinions and developing one of your own.



Thanks, pippolino for your deep concern.

Agree with you flying_pig319.........but why they hate each other ???
I think not because Islam and Judaism...not because Sara and Hagar .

Palestinians are waiting for independence like any other nation on this earth...waiting for the day Israeli occupation to their land end .....waiting for thier state to be exist.
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flying_pig319



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: end of conflict Reply with quote

k.m.m wrote:
flying_pig319 wrote:
pippolino wrote:
Israel is far from its 1948 situation,it is now a fully developed country and with a very strong economy.So instead of bringing some strange populations based only on their religion like the aetiopians to Israel,or converts from Thailand,just let the refugees come back and finish this conflict.The palestinians from Lebanon hate us guts and they live in appalling conditions,not to mention that they are mistreated by the lebanese themselves.If I am not wrong they originate from the Galilei.At the end of the day,they are only 300,000 people.Is it such a big concern?


I could've interrupted you SO many times there, it's overwhelming. But let me just say this:
Yes, the Palestinians (or at least the Palestinian government) DOES hate Israel. And Israel DOES hate the Palestinian government. But there IS a reason for this- your posts suggest that you don't think so.
I'm not saying that the governments SHOULD hate each other, but there is at least a seed of reason for what's going on, and it IS a big concern.
I suggest you study up on your history before you decide that it's all dumb Smile

And about originating from wherever, BOTH GROUPS OF PEOPLE ORIGINATED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. This piece of information IS in agreement (by historians and other experts), it's just how the land should be split up that is the conflict.

Again, maybe read through some of the many other posts on this topic and develop a real opinion before you state so strongly that it's all hogwash.

Try: "Here's what's happening in the Middle East" (by me)
or: "Israeli children send gifts to Lebanese children" (by Mariam)
Both of these go very deeply into the subject, and I'd say they're good resources for learning others' honest opinions and developing one of your own.



Thanks, pippolino for your deep concern.

Agree with you flying_pig319.........but why they hate each other ???
I think not because Islam and Judaism...not because Sara and Hagar .

Palestinians are waiting for independence like any other nation on this earth...waiting for the day Israeli occupation to their land end .....waiting for thier state to be exist.


Yes, KMM, I'm sure it's the countries that hate each other and not the religions (I have no problem with YOU, for example Smile )
And I'm sure you know my view on the countries' conflict very well by now, since we've both been on just about every board about this topic, but I'll say it again for these folks:
Palestinians are welcome to live in Israel, they would have full civil rights if they moved there (after all, the Middle-Eastern land was lived in by both Jews and Palestinians), but they refuse to because it would be disgusting to live with Jews for them. However, the Jews would be killed if they moved to many Palestinian nations, so it's really the Jews who are being kicked out of their land.
However, the Jews are very compromising people, and aren't even ASKING to live in those other Palestinian nations- all they want is tiny Israel, and the Palestinian people are still not letting them have it.

Palestinians: Welcome to live in all parts of the Middle East, have 90% of the land, want 100% of the land
Jews: Only welcome to live in Israel, have 10% of the land, only want 10% of the land, still being bombed very frequently to give up this 10%, even though Palestinians are welcome to come and live in it WITH the Jews (and the offer is not reciprical)

For more, READ THE OTHER THREADS! Very Happy
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pippolino



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: response to flying_pig319 comments Reply with quote

Here are my comments:

"Palestinians are welcome to live in Israel, they would have full civil rights if they moved there"

That's a joke. By Israeli law they have no right to return,they are just stuck whereever they are. What's even more suprising,if you are a palestinian but naturilized American citizen you would need a visa to come to Israel.

"However, the Jews would be killed if they moved to many Palestinian nations"

To your information,many jews do very successful businesses in Arab countries including Syria.They have no problem what's so ever as long as they stay out of the Arab-Israeli conflict.


"about originating from wherever, BOTH GROUPS OF PEOPLE ORIGINATED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST"

Etiopeans have similar rituals but there is no genetic link between us and them,actually they are converted once in Israel.Many immigrants from former USSR have nothing to do with jewishness by blood. Many converts as well emigrated. The black hebrews from Dimona have no jewish blood. Actually as Jew I am probably more related to palestinians than to these people.

As far as repartiating the palestinians I would probably would have considered it a very stupid solution 30 years ago. But today we have a very strong haredi baby boomer community that can easily compete with the palestinian birth rate. I don't think it is a demographic threat, so I just sugget letting them come back gradually and only on humanitarian basis. That is only palestinians that do not have another citizenship.

"I suggest you study up on your history before you decide that it's all dumb"

I have family members who fought against the arabs. I can tell you there is nothing to be proud about,its sheer chance if you are alive and its totally useless. I feel pitty for the boys who died in Lebanon,the Israeli policitians should have send their boys on the front line or even go there themselves. And yes I think it is very very dumb to believe this ilussion about the conflict. Nothing was achieved.




I would also like to see some palestinian on this board.
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pippolino



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: palestinian comment?? Reply with quote

By the way,I assume everybody is jewish on this board.I would rather see some Palestinian come on board and hear his side.
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flying_pig319



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: response to flying_pig319 comments Reply with quote

pippolino wrote:
That's a joke. By Israeli law they have no right to return,they are just stuck whereever they are. What's even more suprising,if you are a palestinian but naturilized American citizen you would need a visa to come to Israel.

I disagree, but since this is not a matter of opinion, we can solve it easily Smile
Where is your source-- can you give me an online reference somehow?

pippolino wrote:
To your information,many jews do very successful businesses in Arab countries including Syria.They have no problem what's so ever as long as they stay out of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

You're right, now they do. But when Israel was created, and there were Jews and Arabs all spread out over everywhere, the Jews in Jordan were killed while the Jordanian Arabs in Israel were allowed to stay (although most chose to leave).

pippolino wrote:
Etiopeans have similar rituals but there is no genetic link between us and them,actually they are converted once in Israel.Many immigrants from former USSR have nothing to do with jewishness by blood. Many converts as well emigrated. The black hebrews from Dimona have no jewish blood. Actually as Jew I am probably more related to palestinians than to these people.

...This is not a reply to my post about both Jews and Palestinians being from Palestine (the Middle East).

pippolino wrote:

I have family members who fought against the arabs. I can tell you there is nothing to be proud about,its sheer chance if you are alive and its totally useless. I feel pitty for the boys who died in Lebanon,the Israeli policitians should have send their boys on the front line or even go there themselves. And yes I think it is very very dumb to believe this ilussion about the conflict. Nothing was achieved.

I wasn't saying I have something to be proud of, and I also feel pity for all those who died in these awful wars. I'm a pacifist, I promise you that I do not like to see anyone die, from either side. I'm sorry if you got the impression that I wanted the Arabs dead or anything, but that's definitely not the case.
The conflict IS existing though. I'm not saying we'll achieve anything by killing each other over it, but the conflict IS there. Of course it's there, because not both sides are happy with their situation. If either side feels there's ever a need to bomb (even though I personally think bombing is not the answer) there is a conflict.
You may think you're being PC or peace-nicky by saying there's no conflict, but I definitely disagree. Admitting there's a conflict is a much more progressive and constructive view than saying "There is no conflict; nothing was achieved".

pippolino wrote:
I would also like to see some palestinian on this board.

KMM is Muslim, although I do not know where he is from.
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k.m.m



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

commmn ,flying_pig319....We can see how disgusting and bad treatment for the palastinean by Israel police in the Rafah check point and others check points to go to their homes....!!!...
also , please read this:
The solution is the expulsion of the Arab enemy
By: Tal Yemin-Volvovitch ,September 10, 2004
Last night, for the first time, 100 activists with the party headed by right-wing extremist Baruch Marzel gathered in Jerusalem . In this first meeting, the party's basic principles were unveiled, which include expelling the Arab enemy from all Israeli territories and dismantling the separation wall, which has created �Jewish ghettos,� according to the head of the party.
Leaders of the party said that expelling the Arab enemy will solve most of Israel 's problems. �Expelling the Arabs will put an end to terrorism and will reduce the threat of war,� said party founder Hen Ben-Eliyahu. �The economy will also flourish, and the level of personal and national security will rise.
Expulsion will solve all social problems.�
source: maariv date September 10,2004.
Ban on selling lands in Karmiel to Jews only
By: Jackie Houri, Haaretz ,date : september 7,2004.
The Haifa District Court today ordered the Israel Lands Administration (ILA) to either freeze a tender for building plots in the Givat Makosh neighborhood in Karmiel or give Israeli Arabs the opportunity to participate. The tender is for lands owned by the Jewish National Fund (JNF) and thus limited to Jews only. The Arab Center for Alternative Planning and the Association for Civil Rights in Israel filed a petition to abolish this condition. The petitioners say that the JNF, which owns the land, justifies the ban by an agreement between it and the state of Israel which prohibits the sale of its land to Arabs.
Israeli Arabs prohibited from entry
By: Aaron Tahauko
�I can't allow you to enter the kindergarten because you're Arabs, even if you're just doing your job.� This was the response that met two Israeli Arabs when they reached a kindergarten in Jerusalem to deliver supplies as part of their job.
Shadi Qassem and Ahmed Fadila, both 23-year-old residents of the village of Tira in the Triangle, went to the Gan Hannah kindergarten on 8 Iceland Street in Jerusalem . The two work as sales representatives for the al-Ghani Company, which markets and delivers equipment and furniture to kindergartens and schools. When they asked to enter the kindergarten to deliver supplies, the guard stopped them. They say the guard told them that they couldn't enter the kindergarten because they were Israeli Arabs. www.nana.co.il dated july 18,2004.
They don't want Arabs
By: Emunah Elon , dated June 27, 2004 from www.a7.org
Many civilized Israelis were shocked when they learned that an opinion poll conducted by the Center for National Security Studies at Haifa University found that 64% of the Jewish public in Israel believes that the state should encourage Israeli Arabs to emigrate. This means that 48% of Israeli citizens actually support the transfer of 20% of Israeli citizens.
why welcome to live in Israel !!!!
Palastinains want to live in their own land peacfully ,which they have been removed . they have been removed by force from their farms ,mosques and churches.. THEY WANT THEIR OWN STATE TO BE EXISIST.
I disagree with you , there are so many Jews family still living in Arab country and some dont like "disagree" with Israel :
A Jew in Yemen : We hate Israel because of the way it treats the Palestinians By: Gal Berger from www.nfc.co.il dated Decenber 19 , 2004:
Suleiman Saad al-Jaradi, a Jew living in Yemen , attacked Israel in an interview published on the Saudi Elaf website, which has close ties to the London-based al-Hayat . �Israelis have no religion, no Torah, and no morals,� he said.
Al-Jaradi lives in a community of 30 Jewish families in Raida, in the Omran province, about 120 km north of the capital of Sanaa. In the interview he talks about the community's way of life, particularly Jewish customs and religious traditions.
Al-Jaradi issued a scathing critique of Israel . �We hate Israel and Zionist because they kill Palestinians,� he said. �Zionists are not Jews. We don't go there, and we don't allow our children to go there.�
Yom Kippur: a Sephardic perspective By: Mati Shmueloff from www.haqada.org.il dated 25 September , 2004
...............The Sephardim in Israel , who emigrated from Arab countries after the establishment of the state of Israel , were forced to follow a painful path that continues to this day in different ways. That is why it is up to Ashkenazi Zionism to beg forgiveness by studying the methods of oppression as a means of atonement.
First: The Sephardim were forced to live in far-flung communities to take possession of the lands that the new state nationalized and confiscated from the Palestinians, some of them Israeli citizens...
Second: The Sephardim in Israel were forced to obliterate their Arab identity thanks to the propaganda campaigns of Ashkenazi Zionism....

Palestinian ninja By: Gil Karniel dated September 28,2004(The author is an observer with Machsom Watch.)
Are Palestinian women ninja turtles? Yes, this is how they are described at the Hawara checkpoint on the outskirts of Nablus . I know this because I heard a soldier calling a group of women wearing black veils by this name. The women, of course, did not answer. Apparently ninja movies are not common in Nablus . The soldier got angry and used a phrase often on the tongues of the soldiers at the checkpoints: �Hey girls.� This reminds me of what happens at Ben-Gurion Airport , when the inspector says, �All the girls head to Gate 6.� We taught one soldier the correct word for women in Arabic: niswan . Is this just to amuse the stern-faced inspectors and members of Machsom Watch?
�We were monsters� By: Chen Kotz-Bar November 26, 2004
In the same week that Capt. R. was indicted for shooting a 13-year-old girl near Rafah after she approached an Israeli army outpost, reserve soldiers and officers belonging to the Breaking the Silence movement met to discuss their service in the territories, focusing on friction with the Palestinian population
and more and more ....
what the palastinans want is their own land to start their own STATE ....very simple
by the way :I am from Riyadh , Saudi .
thank you flying_pig319 for reading ...woooowww too much , I know..
take care Smile
KMM
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pippolino



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:35 am    Post subject: my reply Reply with quote

a comment flying_pig319:

Jews in Jordan

There are no jews in Jordan,jews are present historically in Lebanon,Syria and Egypt

Just to convince you that palestinians cannot come back to their homes.Here is an article on the right of return of palestinians from the BBC :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3629923.stm


a comment for k.m.m:

your comments are totally out of line. Israeli Arabs are treated quite well in Israel, nearly as equal to Jewish citizens. It is total nonsense and
out of my topic. Actually among countries abusing arabs is your country and other corrupt governments in the middle east. My point was that time
has come that Israel make an act of reparation in front of palestinians refugees who are hopeless, a measure that would not endanger its jewish
demographic majority. Some efforts could be made to allievate life in the teritories. I know quite well the palestinian situation. I know very
well how we got here, not only because of Israel but also because in the teritories there was despair and poverty while the Fatah leaders
were driving limos in Switzerland.
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flying_pig319



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree that KMM's posts were pretty hateful, though I wouldn't call him "totally out of line", because although his opinion is very offensive to you and I as Jews, he did state it politely and respectfully (or, as respectfully as these things can be posted).

About the article, it seems to be backing MY point of view:
It says that many Palestinians FLED their homes. In other words, they CHOSE to leave because of what was going on there.
It also says that letting the Palestinians back into Israel would be sacrificing Israel's state (why would you let the enemy into your country? Especially when you are not allowed into the enemy's country in the same way?)

About Jordan:
Yes!! There are no Jews in Jordan because THEY WERE ALL KILLED, like I said in the first place Razz
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pippolino



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:55 am    Post subject: why did palestians leave?? Reply with quote

If you wonder why palestinians fled. I do not want to make a sentimental argument about it. Read the following facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre


By the way, jews never lived in Jordan, nor were they killed by them. Jordan as a matter of fact has been carved out by the British.
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