Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[O-lala]

Dear all,

This question is somewhat relevant to the topic � is or are�, and it confused me because different teachers explained it to me differently, but both of them made sense to me. I�d like to know if there is a strict rule for it.

Question:
There (is/are) a pen and two books on the table.

Teacher A said:
In this case, the be verb depends on the closer subject, so the answer is
There is a pen and two books on the table.
If we switch the place of two subjects, the answer will change be:
There are two books and a pen on the table.

Teacher B said:
We have to see �a pen and two books� as a whole, and it is plural. So the answer should be: There are a pen and two books on the table.
In this case, no matter how we switch the place of subjects, they are always plural.

Can anybody help me here? Which teacher is correct?
Thanks a lot!

[CP]

Singular subject, singular verb. Plural subject, plural verb.

I use "are" in sentences such as yours, whether the first element is singular or plural, because together the first and the second elements make more than one.

If we use Teacher A's rule, we must say, "In the school there is one principal, 75 teachers, 1,350 students, 7 buildings, 4 janitors, 8 cafeteria workers, 9 secretaries, one gym, two locker rooms, 8 outdoor basketball courts, 6 tennis courts, two practice fields, one stadium, two pools, and a partridge in a pear tree."
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[myprofe]

[CP]

[O-lala]

Dear CP and Myprofe,

Thanks for both of you. I am from Asia, and we don�t usually pay attention to grammar rule when we speak as long as our message is clearly delivered. However, when it comes as a grammar test, we do need to know how to use English correctly.

So, this question about �there is/ there are� does not have a straight answer. Then I guess the score will be controlled by person who grades it...

Once again, thank you for share your information with me! I appreciated!

[Mary W. Ng]

[lotus]

Hi,

I hate to muddle things up. And, I'm probably doing O-lala a disservice. But, in this case, I might tend to follow my ears instead of a textbook.

When I see a pen and two books on a table (and I want to point this out to someone), I might say:

There's a pen and two books on the table.

"There are a pen and two books on the table" just sounds funny to me.

There's a couple of reasons why I might say this. Generally, when we describe a list, we say the longer syllables last (strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff). At the same time, we often list larger quantity items first (three French hens, two turtle doves and a partridge in a pear tree).

It may also be that the pen commands more attention. A pen is an active instrument - whereas books are passive containers of knowledge. When I see a pen and two books, I might take notice of the pen first (especially if it's a fancy pen). Therein, lies the separation between the two types of objects. Because of this, I might think and say this:

There's a pen... and two books on the table.

None of the above reasons obviate the need to follow grammar rules (especially for a test). But, sometimes, we speak in fairly unreasonable ways without realizing that we've used our (fairly reasonable) subconscious logic.


--lotus
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