Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[sabrinawaiz]

Dear teachers,

Consider a situation where Mr. 'X' has been elected as the 5th president of 'ABC' corporation.

How I can frame a question to obtain '5th' as the answer? (like, Mr. X is the 5th president of ABC Corporation)

How about saying What numbered president of ABC Corporation is Mr. X?

How can I improve the above question?. It seems odd to me.

I am sure there must be a good way of asking this question. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

[2006]

It's very hard to form a natural-sounding question that will ensure that answer.

You can say something like, 'I would like to know how many presidents the ABC Corporation has had. What number is Mr. X?'
That may get the answer '(He is the) 5th.', but is at least as likely to get the answer '(He is) number 5.'

If you want to increase the odds of having "5th" in the answer and you don't mind people thinking you're weird and laughing at you, you would have to say something like �I would like to know how many presidents the ABC Corporation has had. What ordinal number is Mr. X?'
This question most likely has never been asked in the whole history of the world and I offer it mainly to introduce the term 'ordinal numbers'.

Ordinal numbers - 1st (first), 2nd (second), 3rd (third), etc - denote sequence.

[sabrinawaiz]

Thank you so much for your reply, 2006.

Would love to know your comments on asking What numbered president of ABC Corporation is Mr. X? Do you notice any grammatical or structural errors in this question? Can I use the word 'numbered' in this context?

Thank you once again. I appreciate your help in clearing my doubts.

[2006]

[quote="sabrinawaiz"]

Would love to know your comments on asking What numbered president of ABC Corporation is Mr. X? Do you notice any grammatical or structural errors in this question? Can I use the word 'numbered' in this context?
quote]

I wouldn't use "numbered president", as it sounds very odd. Even 'number president' sounds odd, and in either case you are likely to get '5' as an answer.
A much more natural sentence is, 'Including Mr. X, how many presidents has the ABC Corporation had?', but your are likely to again get the answer 'five'.

Here is another idea, maybe the best one. You can say, 'I think that Mr. X is the 6th president of the ABC Corporation. Am I right?' Then you will get an answer like, 'No, he is the 5th.'
You have to ask a leading question like that to set up the specific answer you want.

Why do you need to get the answer "5th"?

[sabrinawaiz]

Hi 2006, Thank you for your comments on my question.

About your query 'Why do I need to get 5th as the answer?'....

I am from Germany. I have friend at the University who is from India. We two have studied English as a second language for about 10 years.

One day while talking about the language, she told me about a full page newspaper advertisement (for a book intended to improve your spoken English written in some regional language of India) which throws a challenge, like....how many of the people (who think they can read, write and speak good English) can frame a question that gives such an answer.

This advertisement came out long time before when all of the world was focusing on United States presidential election, 2000. Challenge was to ask a question which gives 43rd as the answer as President Bush was elected as the 43rd President of United States of America.

My friend says that there has been a frenzy among the students to check ones knowledge in English by asking them to frame a natural sounding question about such a situation.

Upon hearing about this, I have contacted many native speakers to help me frame one good question. The question with 'what numbered' was actually being suggested by a native speaker after being confused and thinking for a little while.

Not quite sure whether author of that book gives any good answers to this kind of questions. Too bad that my friend has not bought this book.

Anyway... all I know from my friend is that the Publisher of this particular book has used this 'Question Challenge' as a good marketing idea and that was successful enough to receive attention from so many people.

[2006]

I see; that's an interesting story.

If you already know that Mr. X is the 5th president (maybe I should have assumed that but I didn't) and you just want to make the person who answers say "5th", ask 'Is Mr. X the 5th or 6th president of the ABC Corporation?'
Then he has to say "5th". (unless he is on to your game and doesn't want to play along)

[sabrinawaiz]

Thank you 2006,
I do agree to your comment, saying that it would be difficult to frame a natural sounding question to the aforementioned situation.

Even then.... with your help I have a bunch of variants available to obtain that particular answer.

[2006]

Your're welcome.

Say, 'I (do) agree with your comment.......'.