Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[rice07]

Dear teachers:
My questions are as follows:
1.Is that notion as the subject discrided above right?(Do............meaning?)
2.As far as I learn English,some adjectives like "impossible" are not follwed with nouns . So we say "mission impossible". There is a bottom line I want to know-is"mission impossible" the short form of "mission which is impossible"?(my analyses:mission which is impossible=>mission being possible=>mission impossible.But I digress,"Impossible is nothing" is an invertion,right?

[rice07]

Sorry! Allow me to make a correction in question 2,"mission being possible" should be "mission being impossibe".

[CP]

1. Never heard of either expression. Can you provide some example sentences?

2. The expression �mission impossible� comes from an old television program named, �Mission: Impossible.� Note the colon. The title logo looked like a rubber stamp slogan that some government official might slap on a proposal for some sort of secret mission of derring-do. In every episode, the �IM� team received instructions for a difficult, seemingly impossible mission from an unnamed government body, one that would �disavow any knowledge� of the mission or of the IM team members if they should fail.

Remarkably, they never failed! There have been a few Mission: Impossible movies, too. They don't follow the IM team formula so much as give Tom Cruise a chance to wow the audience with gagetry and manly stunts.

The name was too good not to pass into popular culture, so you will hear people say something like, �I tried to get Joe to pick up after himself, but that�s mission impossible.� In real life, we usually actually fail when the mission is impossible.

So: It is not true that the adjective �impossible� is not followed by the noun. It is an ordinary noun. It is true that people say �mission impossible� from time to time. And it does mean a mission that is impossible, or at least that seems impossible.
_________________
You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb

[rice07]

1.In oxford advanced learner's dictionary,there's an explanation for word "pat" as follows- pat(verb):to touch sd/sth gently several times with your "hand flat"(is flat hand possible here,too.),especially as a sign of affection.I look up word "flat", and there're some examples for sentences:*people used to think the earth was flat.*Exercise is the only way to get a flat stomach after having a baby.*flat shoes. So I want to know if "adj+n" and "n+adj" in here have the same meaning.
2.Thanks for your detailed explanations on "mission impossible",making me have a closer acquaintance with that tv program.Thanks again for bothering you so much.especially you've been keeping busy.I'm indebted to you!

[rice07]

Sorry!Teacher. I should've noted the colon-"Mission:Impossible".

[bud]

First of all, when you saw "mission impossible," I'm sure there wasn't a colon. Look at CP's example: no colon there. The TV show used the colon, as it should have, but when we adopted the expression into our slang, we left out the colon. It would make the punctuation of the sentence incorrect, and probably very difficult to figure out.

As to your question, I don't know how to explain the grammar. All I can say is that "hand flat" in that example is the same as "hand held flat." I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that "flat" is serving as an adverb, not an adjective.

Another thing to consider is that the likely interpretation of a reader/listener of "flat hand" is a description of the hand rather than how the hand is being held. But it doesn't make a lot of sense: What exactly is a flat hand?

However, I think "flat hand" could mean the way the hand is being held, but it might take the reader/listener a few moments to understand the intent of the phrase. In this case, I'm pretty sure "flat" is being used as an adjective.

Maybe someone else will have a clearer explanation.

[Philo Kevetch]

Hello Bud -

I believe the expression is 'the flat of the hand' = palm and fingers

(with fingers/thumb stretched-out causing the palm to 'flatten'). Philo

[rice07]

Howdy teachers
First I'd like to say "no offence"to anybody wanting to help me with my problem.(especially my english isn't so good enough to express myself understood clearly.)
After teacher Bud suggested that "hand flat" could be the same example as"hand held flat,I took a close look on dictionary for word "pat" again.I think that the explanation "to touch sb/sth gently several times with your hand flat,especially as a sign of affection" indicates sb to do an action not passive in meaning.(example:She patted the dog on the head.)
So if I wouldn't misunderstand the meaning("hand held flat") teacher Bud suggesting,"hand held flat" could mean"your hand that is held flat by others",right?I just give my oppion to the above.If any offence,you'd have my sincere apologies.By the way,I personally think that philo's oppion for that is much convincing to me.Anyway thanks everyone!

[bud]

Hi Philo. Yes, good point!

Hi Rice07. No, I didn't mean that your hand is held flat by others. In this case, "held" means how you position your hand.

[rice07]

Hi Bud
I got it.Thanks a lot and have a good day!