Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[fw]

Hello, everyone.

The following is one of the model sentences I have found in a writing/composition textbook now in use for high school students in Japan.

Just before going to sleep is the time when I enjoy reading the most.
I am wondering if it is grammatically correct to take a prepositional phrase like �just before going to sleep� as the subject of a sentence. When I was a student, I was taught from teachers of English that the subject of a sentence should be a noun equivalent.

Or is the sentence above an �inverted� sentence?

Any comment would be appreciated.

Best regards,
fw

[rice07]

Hi

Here in the following is my personal opinion,maybe other teachers with some better comments.


As far as I'm aware that structure like S+VERB BE+ADJ. can be inverted into ADJ.+VERB BE+S,like:

example

Impossible is nothing.

For people not being native speakers of English,you might have been confused with it if you had seen it the first time.Why an adj.(impossible) could be a subject?Yes,it's a kind of inversion.And if we reordered the sentence into Nothing is impossible,it might be easier understood.

So,take your question as an example:

Just before going to bed is the time when I enjoy reading (the) most.

Let,s reorder it into:

The time is just before going to bed when I enjoy reading (the) most.

S:The time

VERB BE:is

COMPLEMENT(ADJ.):just before going to bed

ADV. SUBORDINATE CLAUSE:when I enjoy reading (the) most

If wrong ,please correct me!

[rice07]

Hi Rice07

Let me correct your mistakes-

=>personal opinion

=>take your question

=>For people not being native speakers of English,you might have been confused with it if you had seen it the first time.

[rice07]

structureS+V+ADJ can be inverted into ADJ+V+S

should be=>S+VERB BE+ADJ can be inverted intoADJ+ VERB BE+S

With so many mistakes,I guess I've scared you (I'm a little bit impetuous).But that doesn't hurt the fact.

[fw]

Thank you, rice07.

Do I understand then that you mean #2 below is grammatically correct, while #1 is not?

1. Just before going to sleep and while comingi back from work on the train are the time when I enjoy reading the most.
2. Just before going to sleep and while comingi back from work on the train is the time when I enjoy reading the most.

[rice07]

Hi

In my opinion,I guess #2 is correct,because you can take"just before going to bed and while coming back from work" as that(the) period of time when you enjoy reading while verb be is is used.But the fact that I'm not a native English speaker,we may need some help from those native ones,to give us suggestions.Here in the following I've got another example for your reference:

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

I hope that it helps with your question.

[rice07]

Hi Fw

What do you think--Just before going to bed and after getting home from work?

[rice07]

Just before going to bed and after work on the train

Maybe we do need some help!

[fw]

Let me explain about what I think is the point of my second question.

I understand that if the sentence in question is, as I think you suggested, an �inverted� sentence, then the grammatically correct sentence will be #2 below, since "the time when I enjoy reading the most" is singular as the subject of the sentence.

If, on the other hand, the "just before going to sleep and while comingi back from work on the train" part is the subject, then I think the verb should be "are," like in sentence #1 below, since "just before going to sleep" and "while comingi back from work on the train" are two different spans of your daily life

1. Just before going to sleep and while comingi back from work on the train are the time when I enjoy reading the most.
2. Just before going to sleep and while comingi back from work on the train is the time when I enjoy reading the most.

[rice07]

Hi

Now that 'Just before going to bed and while coming back from work on the train' is a complement and the time is the real subject.
Obviously,singular verb be is is used ih here.What's your opinion?So we seem confused with it!

[fw]

Hi, rice07

[rice07]

What verb be is used depends on the subject not the complement(s) in that case.

In fact,an inversion structure like adj+be+s,it's more common to me that adj is a word not a prepositional phrase or two...,or rather,for instance:

Impossible is nothing.

blessed are humble people.

Happy is one who is content.

Noteworthy is the fact that he is talented for music.


Sometimes something are confusing.Do you believe there're some differences for a grammar book over the same point between its 1st and 3rd edition? That is --language is dynamic.this was a real case (Teacher Lorikeet told me in her reply to my post) that we might be told--even native English speakers were confused about few and little. Whereas sorry for my limitted ability over English,if I cannot do to help!

I'm confused about word "loved" in the following paragraph,too.

As long as people are content to see the lives of "their loved ones" needlessly endangered by reckless,negligent and criminal actions of migrant smugglers,...

I believe loved is an adj(past participle served as an adj; I suppose you also know the fact that some adjectives in this style are harder to be found their definitions in ordinary dictionaries),and their loved ones may mean the ones who they love(d).But what's the definition for loved in this case.Why not the lives of those ones who they love(d)?is it the reason--too damn long?I really don't know!

[rice07]

Hi

only+prepositional phrase

=>Only by doing so can you succeed.

In this case,we can take Only+ prepositional phrase as negatively adverbial phrase while it's put at the beginning of a sentence,and (we) put an aux verb(and non-aux have and be) directly before the subject of a clause in several different structures.

Perhaps,I was wrong to your question--it's not an inversion.

As we know,gerund can be regarded as noun for subject.If so ,your #1 is correct.But here we go again--all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

=>sigular verb makes is used because "all work and no play" is thougt of as one thing in this case. What verb to be used depends on.....

Seems that problem goes back to the beginning.However,we've read through some of the inversions.

[rice07]

Hi Fw

I guess I must be wrong to your question--it's not an inversion.

The reasons are as follows:

1.Just before going to bed and while coming back from work on the train=two phrasal nouns(I don't know whether this term is right or not for them) =the time(?)=the times(?)

2.We can invert those two phrasal nouns and the time(the times) of their position ,which doesn't make them have different meanings.

Just before going to bed and while coming back from work on the train are the time(s) when I enjoy reading the most.
=The time(s) is(are) just before going to bed and while coming back from work on the train when I enjoy reading the most.

3.when I enjoy reading the most is an adj subordinate cl.(not adv. subordinate cl. that I mentioned earlier) to refer to the time(s) or just before going to bed and while coming back from work on the train

4If you ask me that which one(the time or the times) is used, I must tell you the fact--I'm confused about it.

[rice07]

2.We can invert those two phrasal nouns and the time(the times) of their positions, which doesn't make them have different meanings.



I usually take a shower before having my breakfast.

=>before having my breakfast :prepositional phrase doing the work of adv. to modify take.

Before having my breakfast is the time when I usually take a shower.
=The time is before having my breakfast when I usually take a shower.

=>Both before having my breakfast and the time can be served as subject or complement,any complement which is doing the function of noun not adj. in this case.