Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[rice07]

Hi

...

The declining dollar also means BMW and other foreign automakers will likely start buying locally for more of the parts used by their US plants, he said.

That shift in production has led to the cuts at home for the Munich-based luxury car maker.

BMW's head of personnel, Ernst Baumann, said last month that 5,600 jobs would be cut by the end of the year. That's on top of 2,500 positions already eliminated. That adds up to 7.5 percent of the company's total work force of almost 108,000, including both permanent and temporary employees.

...

The paragraphs given above are quoted from newspaper. I'm confused about those two sentences beginning with That. Are they correct grammatically? Could anyone elaborate them for me? Much obliged!

BTW, I suppose the 2nd That might be a pronoun referring to the work force. But what's the 1st one(That's) for? Is it a possessive form of pronoun meaning of the work force?

[Bob S.]

The first that refers to the 5,600 jobs cut in the previous sentence. The second that refers to the combined jobs cut from the two previous sentences. So they (the sentences) are grammatically correct. Though grammatically, you could say "Those add up to 7.5%..." since those would refer to the first set of jobs cut as a separate group from the second set of jobs cut. But either way is okay.

[rice07]

Hi

Way to go! Thanks Bob S.!

Your analysis widens my views of English a lot. I should have thought of the 1st That might refer to 5,600 jobs cut. So, that's why-- they(those two That) are confusing. In my opinion, we use thatfor single noun or those for plural to refer to the previously mentioned noun(s). Your reply is really an eyeopener to me, and means I still have a lot to learn from you. I'm very much indebted to you!

BTW, Teacher Bob S., I assumed What you wrote 5,600 jobs cut was regarded as 'one thing done( or to be done)', because I took a close look at the expression(5,600 jobs cut) again that cut seemed not like a noun in this case, to be exact, it(cut) might be a past participle being served as doing the function of an adjective-- 5,600 jobs that/which would be cut= 5,600 jobs (being) cut, since cut was a countable noun for the definition of a planned reduction in the size or amount of something( e.g. : job cuts/wage cuts/ tax cuts), therefore, pronoun That being used in this sentence wouldn't be correct( in the case 5,600 job cuts).

[Bob S.]

[rice07]

Hi Bob S.

Yes. I know that can be used in a relative clause to refer to the antecedent plural while that is a relative pronoun. That's why I'm confused-- both those two sentences beginning with That aren't relative clauses, and those previously mentioned nouns seem like plural. But what you wrote ' we can use that to refer to plural, especially when we want to refer to that set as unique from larger group' is accurate and sounds perfectly fine to me.

One thing I still cannot clearly make sense out is the definition of jobs cut.
You said( if I exactly know what you meant):

Jods cutmeans 'unnecessary labor costs that should be reduced in difficult economic times when customers aren't buying what you're making'. Seems like 'reductions in the number of unnecessary expenditures of a company during difficult economic times'.

Sorry for questioning again! Take '5600 jobs cut' in contrast to 'unnecessary labor costs that should be reduced in difficult economic times when customers aren't buying what you're making', I think '5600 jobs cut' seems to mean '5600 positions of a company that are reduced'. So if jobs cut are 'unnecessary labor costs ... ', do you think the expression for this case $xxxx jobs cut would be better? I'm sorry for being so bullheaded and a little slow. Hope not trouble you too much! I can never thank you enough!

[Bob S.]

[rice07]

[Bob S.]

[rice07]

Hi Bob S.

Thanks for your time and instruction in that.

For not being native speaker, I must admit, though, some exprssions just having slight differences in spellings among them, could make my head spin with recognizing their meanings or usages. Now I don't worry about that, with having plenty of great and nice teachers like you in this forum, right? Thanks again!

Have a nice day!

[Bob S.]