Site Search:
 
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Is "the" needed?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Junkomama



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 592

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Is "the" needed? Reply with quote

The buds are swelling bigger and bigger! I think the flowers at least 10 centimeters in diameter will bloom.

Would you tell me whether "the" before "flowers" is needed and the reason?

Thank you in advance!
Junkomama
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Suzanne



Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, "the" needs to be in front of flowers. It is a definite article, and identifies "flowers." It's used for making general statements about a noun, in this case, flowers.

The sentence will read better like this:

The buds are swelling bigger and bigger! I think the flowers will be at least 10 centimeters in diameter when they bloom.

I hope this helps!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Junkomama



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 592

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for your answer and showing me a better sentence, Suzanne-san!!

Can I say that the phrase "at least 10 centimeters in diameter" identifies "flowers" in my sentence and "the flowers" in your sentence are the particular flowers easily understood in the context?

With regards,
Junkomama
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
2006



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 610

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Is "the" needed? Reply with quote

Junkomama wrote:
The buds are swelling bigger and bigger! I think the flowers at least 10 centimeters in diameter will bloom.

Would you tell me whether "the" before "flowers" is needed and the reason?
1...I don't agree that "the" is needed; in fact it is wrong to use "the". Using "the" suggests that there are already existing flowers, and that the flowers that are at least 10 cm will then bloom. Of course this is not the case.
2..."The buds are swelling bigger..." is very odd! 'getting bigger' is the usual way to say this.
Thank you in advance!

3...I agree that Suzanne's second sentence is a good one. "...the flowers will be at least 10 cm...... when they bloom."
4...The original sentence can be largely corrected by saying, 'I think that flowers at least 10 centimeters in diameter will bloom.' But Suzanne's sentence is the best. (the buds first bloom and then 10 cm flowers appear)
Junkomama
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Junkomama



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 592

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for your comments, 2006-san!!
The usage of articles is very difficult for me though I have learned the basic rules.
I'd appreciate other opinions, too.

With regards,
Junkomama
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Suzanne



Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, such great discussion! This is the wonderful thing about English--it can be spoken many ways, and still be correct.

I maintain that "the" is correct, and is how a native speaker would construct the sentence.
The buds swelling bigger and bigger is a terrific "visual" and expressive way to tell the reader that the buds are really growing. It's quite descriptive and poetic! And "the" flowers implies the flowers that will result from the buds...the flowers DO already exist!

I can easily imagine these sentences as part of a conversation, perhaps as two people walk in their garden and talk about what's happening with with springtime blooms. So....they make perfect sense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Help Center All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Dave's ESL Cafe is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Banner Advertising | Bookstore / Alta Books | FAQs | Articles | Interview with Dave
Copyright © 2018 Dave's ESL Cafe | All Rights Reserved | Contact Dave's ESL Cafe | Site Map

Teachers College, Columbia University: Train to Teach English Here or Abroad
SIT
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group