Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[sabrinak]

Hello,

Is there difference in meaning in the following examples?


1. Moles have lovely, velvety fur.

2. Moles have lovely velvety fur.

3. Moles have lovely and velvety fur.



Thank you. I really appreciate your help.

[Suzanne]

Hello,

#1 and #3 are similar, but #1 is better. #2 is not correct--you need to add a comma between two adjectives.

[sabrinak]

Hello,

In addition to my previous question about comma use, please look at this sentence:

"It has lovely soft fur."

Based on your reply, this sentence should have a comma between "lovely" and "soft": It has lovely, soft fur. Right?

Thank you.

[Lorikeet]

The "rule" may say to use a comma, but I bet the majority of Americans at least would leave out the comma in most situations.

[lotus]

Hi,

The use of the comma on consecutive adjectives depends on whether the adjectives are coordinate or subordinate to each other. It basically depends on whether or not they can act independently. If they can act independently, and have approximate equal strength, they are coordinate, and you should use a comma. If they are dependent on each other or one is a subset of the other, they are subordinate; then you should not use a comma.

In your sentence, I would interpret the adjectives as subordinate (one is a subset or description of the another). The loveliness of the fur is dependent on its velvetiness. The loveliness is an attribute caused by the velvetiness. Therefore, it is dependent on the word velvety. Hence, the comma is not necessary.

Here's a link to some reference information (section 6):

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_comma.html

quote:

6. Use commas to separate two or more coordinate adjectives that describe the same noun. Be sure never to add an extra comma between the final adjective and the noun itself or to use commas with non-coordinate adjectives.

Coordinate adjectives are adjectives with equal ("co"-ordinate) status in describing the noun; neither adjective is subordinate to the other. You can decide if two adjectives in a row are coordinate by asking the following questions:

* Does the sentence make sense if the adjectives are written in reverse order?
* Does the sentence make sense if the adjectives are written with and between them?

If you answer yes to these questions, then the adjectives are coordinate and should be separated by a comma. Here are some examples of coordinate and non-coordinate adjectives:

He was a difficult, stubborn child. (coordinate)
They lived in a white frame house. (non-coordinate)
She often wore a gray wool shawl. (non-coordinate)
Your cousin has an easy, happy smile. (coordinate)
The 1) relentless, 2) powerful 3) summer sun beat down on them. (1-2 are coordinate; 2-3 are non-coordinate.)
The 1) relentless, 2) powerful, 3) oppressive sun beat down on them. (Both 1-2 and 2-3 are coordinate.)

end quote:


I also find these rules to be not always cut and dry.


--lotus
_________________
War does not make one great --Yoda

[sabrinak]

Based on what you said:

1. It has lovely soft fur.
2. It has lovely velvety fur.
3. It has lovely, soft fur.
4. It has lovely, velvety fur.
5. It has soft, lovely fur.
6. It has velvety, lovely fur.

I guess 5 and 6 is not correct, right? Then the best choices are 1 and 2, Right?

Please help.

[Suzanne]

Hello,
As a long-time writer, I still say that the comma is important when using two adjectives. It helps the reader understand--when we write, we want to avoid confusion.
With that in mind, I would say that the following are fine:
3. It has lovely, soft fur.
4. It has lovely, velvety fur.
5. It has soft, lovely fur.
6. It has velvety, lovely fur.

From a reader's view, I like these the best:
3. It has lovely, soft fur.
4. It has lovely, velvety fur.

[lotus]

Hi Suzanne,

In some ways, I also agree with you. As noted above, these rules are not always cut and dry. If the person wanted to emphasize the overall loveliness of the fur, and separately, the velvetiness of the fur, I would use the comma or the "and." Otherwise, if it is the lovely velvetiness of the fur that they are trying to convey, I would not use the comma. Either way, the connotation would come from context.

Rules are just rules. We use them to guide us, not to tie us down.


--lotus
_________________
War does not make one great --Yoda