puzzle
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 198
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 Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: as if |
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Dear teachers,
I'm now puzzled with the tense in sentences concerning"as if". Could you please help me out?
e.g. 1. She remembers everthing as if it happened yesterday.
2. You understand not only what the rule says but what it means, as if you yourself had made it.
Can we use "had happened" in the first sentence.and "made" in the second sentence?
Thank you very much! |
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dragn
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Puzzle,
Everybody sort of ignored this question, and I sort of understand why. This is one of those slippery, gray questions with no real crystal clear, black-and-white answers. But I hate to see a student go away empty-handed, so I'll put my neck on the chopping block and take a shot at it.
| Quote: |
| 1. She remembers everything as if it happened yesterday. |
You know, part of the problem is that this question has the distinct odeur du subjonctif, or "odor of the subjunctive" (my own term). In other words, it evokes a vague sense of dread stemming from the underlying complexities characteristic of formal grammar. The kind that isn't taught much on a regular basis. The kind we use but don't know we're using. The kind nobody wants to get into a catfight over. The kind that's enough to send many English teachers (especially native speakers) scrambling for the exits. 
In formal grammar, this could be considered a counterfactual statement (after all, it didn't really happen yesterday), and as such would be a candidate for the past subjunctive (had happened). Of course, this looks suspiciously like our old friend the past perfect. However, in common usage the past indicative (regular past tense) is frequently used. In common usage, we don't normally use the past perfect unless there is a reference point of time that is in the past, and that's not present in this sentence. So, using had happened is technically correct; but I, along with the vast majority of native speakers, would let it stand as is.
| Quote: |
| 2. You understand not only what the rule says but what it means, as if you yourself had made it. |
Much of what I said about the first sentence applies to this one. It is counterfactual (the person being referred to didn't really make the rule), only this time the writer actually has used the past subjunctive, which is technically correct.
However, in terms of common usage, using had made here really does sound better. I think it sounds better than made. There is a greater sense that there really is a reference point in time that is in the past. The speaker seems to be referring to a situation where the other person demonstrated a profound understanding of the rule, and that past event prompted the speaker to make this remark. As a result, to put it in non-grammatical terms, it just feels more past-perfect-ish.
I may get taken to task for this post, but coining the phrase odeur du subjonctif made it all worthwhile. 
Hope this makes at least some sense.
Greg |
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