Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[RedRose]

a few months ago, I was listening to this english teacher's class in my school, and I was supposed to grade her work. She's my colleague, she didn't know I spoke english, since I taught medicine, instead of English.

She made her class a complete mess by teaching broken english. I told her she got a D, she shouted:"what? why?"

I gave her an example:"you told the student 'There are many people watch TV in the hall'. That's broken english, and that's not the only mistake you've made in the class. plenty of mistakes"

She was furious and told me:"that usage is allowed in informal english. Even native english speakers talk like that."
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So dear teachers, please tell her that's wrong, grammatically wrong, I will ask her to read this forum after you guys respond to the thread.

Thanks

[dragn]

Hi,

This makes me a little sad. I have taught English at every level in Taiwan since the summer of 1992, and I have witnessed this far too many times.

I have two female private students who both teach junior high school English in the Taipei area. They have been my students for nearly ten years, and they share such stories with me on a regular basis�arguments between other teachers about some sentence or grammatical construction, etc. On many occasions I arm them with the ammunition they need to win an argument with their colleagues, and I find it all slightly amusing.

But you know, it's not really very amusing when people are offended and get defensive because they feel they're being attacked. On the other hand, I understand that you're just trying to do your job in an objective manner. After all, wrong is wrong, right?

For what it's worth, you happen to be right on this occasion. The sentence There are many people watch TV in the hall is absolutely wrong and would never be uttered by a native speaker in any situation, no matter how informal. Native speakers do make mistakes, mind you, but not like this. For what it's worth (in case your colleague is wondering), I was born, raised and college educated in central Illinois, in the heart of the great American Midwest. Excuse me while I pat myself on the back.

Your colleague was offended and reacted the way people usually react when they feel they are being attacked: she tried to defend herself. The fact that by your own admission you don't teach English probably served to intensify her feelings.

Here's what bothers me about this. You gave her a D for a making some grammar mistakes during her class. That sounds a bit harsh to me, but I don't know the situation, so...OK, fine. Now, I have a multiple choice question for you:

Q. How many mistakes did you make in your post?

a. 3
b. 6
c. 20
d. 12

Answer: 20. A rough count reveals twenty various mistakes of punctuation, capitalization, typography, grammar, etc. I absolutely hate doing this; I really do. I have to grit my teeth and force myself to do it, but I'm doing it just to make a point. The point is simply that you probably could have handled the situation with a little bit more tact and diplomacy. As much as I'd like to, I'm going to refrain from spouting platitudes about people who live in glass houses and all that because I suspect you understand what I mean. At least I hope you do.

Greg

[rice07]

Hi RedRose

From where I stand, I recon that I'm objective as an onlooker, but I think Greg really offered you a terrifically brilliant response.

If you could politely ask your colleague to read this thread, though, I hazard a guess(no offense), it's not completely as expected as you did in your mind, and that is the reason I believe ,you could win the respect of your colleague, and he/she would stand corrected.

Sorry to put in my two cents, but I DO think Greg has done a 'GOOD JOB', in particular for the topic you are asking.

Sincerely
rice

[RedRose]

Thanks to both Dragon and Rice, you two helped me a lot.

And sorry about the late reply. I was on a business trip, so I had no access to internet and no time either.

Yeah, I should have handled this situation in a sophisticated way, instead of throwing that right in her face, after all, we are not god, we all make mistakes, however, in my defense, I am not an English teacher, my mistakes are more excused

Yes, as you two suggested, I didn't ask this colleague to read the whole thread, I only copied some parts of Dragon's post for her, in order for her to know that's really wrong, that was broken english, and that's not supposed to be taught in any English class.

I didn't show her my post, simply because it was too harsh and a little aggressive. I didn't want to ruin the relationship between me and her. Speaking of relationship, I have to show you guys my dark side: I am a single mom, and this colleague often babysits my daughter when I am on a business trip or a conference. Therefore, I should balance the friendship and the broken English. Eventually, Friendship dominated the situation. Truth be told, 3 days ago, I was listening to her class again, and this time I gave her a B+, which meant she could still have her bonus at the end of this semester. I am sorry to say, she made a lot of mistakes in the class this time, as many as she did last time, for example, she told the students:"a lot better----wrong expression, much better---correct'

I confess, I gave her a B+, just because I didn't want to lose a good babysitter. I admit I am a little pragmatic, but that's life, what can I do about that?

Thanks again, Teacher Dragon and Rice, you guys are great .