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whiffycat
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 21
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 Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: punctuation - comma |
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Is "our teacher" in the following sentence an appositive?
Do I need a comma after "Ms. Sole"?
Even our teacher, Ms. Sole, couldn�t make him smile.
Thank you so much! |
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dragn
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Is "our teacher" in the following sentence an appositive?
Even our teacher, Ms. Sole, couldn�t make him smile. |
No, the appositive is Ms. Sole. It serves to identify the head noun, which is teacher.
Appositives are normally set off by commas. In some cases, however, the commas can be omitted. In the above sentence, for example, it would be fine to omit the commas and just write
Even our teacher Ms. Sole couldn�t make him smile.
I have seen this principle explained in the following manner:
If the appositive contains essential information that is needed to identify the head noun, no commas are needed. For example, Ms. Sole is essential information. Without that appositive, our sentence would be
Even our teacher couldn�t make him smile.
Now, we have no idea which teacher is being referred to. Thus, the commas can safely be omitted. (Of course, it is not wrong to include them!)
If the sentence is completely clear without the appositive, then the commas are needed. For example:
Even Ms. Sole, our friendliest teacher, couldn�t make him smile.
Now, our friendliest teacher is the appositive and it is not essential information. The commas cannot be omitted. Without the appositive, the sentence is still clear and complete and we know which teacher is being referred to:
Even Ms. Sole couldn�t make him smile.
Hope this is helpful.
Greg |
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whiffycat
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: I think I understand |
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Thanks very much for your explanation.
I understand this, but I keep losing my understanding and getting it back.
Do the commas have to be in pairs?
I mean, would the following be correct?
It looks incorrect:
Even our teacher, Ms. Sole couldn�t make him smile.
And is it correct to say that the commas are necessary in the following?
Even Ms. Sole, our teacher, couldn't make him smile.
Thanks so much for your time, Greg. |
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dragn
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Do the commas have to be in pairs? |
Yes. That's what it means to "set something off by/with commas." It means to put a comma before and after it.
| Quote: |
And is it correct to say that the commas are necessary in the following?
Even Ms. Sole, our teacher, couldn't make him smile. |
We're getting into a bit of a gray area here, because when a possessive adjective + occupation are coupled with a name, we almost always say it this way:
Even our teacher Ms. Sole couldn't make him smile.
Ms. Sole is essential information needed to identify what teacher is being referred to (hence no commas). The following (with no commas and hence no pause) just sounds odd to me. Not necessarily wrong, just odd:
Even Ms. Sole our teacher couldn't make him smile.
I feel the urge to pause after Ms. Sole. However, adding the commas and thus signaling the reader to pause makes it sound like our teacher is not essential information. But the only way that's not essential information is if we already know that Ms. Sole is the teacher; and if we already know that, why add it?
I know this is confusing. Use the sentences I gave you as a guide to go by.
Greg |
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whiffycat
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much.
: ) |
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