Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[Diana]

The people of Russia were brutally attacked by Chechen terrorists and 57 people were killed. My condemnation goes to these terrorists who should be hunted down and exterminated like the rabid dogs they truly are.

History shows that Russia pulled out of Chechyna in 1996. And after the Russians withdrew, what did the Chechen terrorists do???? They bombed apartment buildings in Russia killing many innocent people in 1999. As a result, Russia went back to Chechyna and is once again fighting the Chechens who started the attacks FIRST. So, it seems that withdrawing from the country didn't help because the terrorists continue their attacks. So, how do we get these Chechen terrorists to stop attacking Russia? Oh and by the way, the Chechens are financied and supported by Al-Queda and Osama Bin Laden.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040622/ap_on_re_eu/russia_attack

[lioness]

Actually this post isn't a reply for yours... I found one very interesting thing: Polish media called these terrorists "partizans". Yet they never call in the same way terrorists in Iraq... Isn't it streange?

Oh, by the way- those people do all those things to be free form Russian shackles. Russia conquered this country in the XIXth century. Chechen doesn't have any choice, they're weaker than Russia, so they have to use such methods.

In Poland in the forties and fifties people fought with Soviet and people who were their servants. And now those who fought are called heroes and patriots.

Diana, one qestion, imagine that Indians retake their land- what would you do? For example they would have nuclear weapons and you wouldn't. What kind of methods would you use? And imagine, that no one wants to help you.

I'm not approving such methods, yet they don't have any choice. They fight for own independence, because Russia won't give it to them.

And what's more, I'm not surprised that you don't understand these people Diana. America has never been conquered (well, Indians' opinion is different, I guess), yet subjugated others.
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Młodości, dodaj mi skrzydła... Youth, give me wings...

[STAshworth]

First of all we don't know wheteher or not there were terrorists in those planes. It is likely but we cant blame the Chechens for it until we know more. And lioness is correct, we in America know nothing of the Chechens situation.
I'm not a sympathizer, but I think we need to be a little less ignorant. We need to look at the situation objectively, and then help in any way we can. If the Terrorists are behind this then Maybe people will open their eyes to how dire the situation is, maybe then all these rebel loving pigs will try to support our troops in Iraq instead of crying foul when people get hurt.
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Ihr kunts unserich lebens beckomen, aber ihr kannst nicht unserich freitheit.

[liebe]

I find it quite interesting that many people nowadays have this mentality of always justifying the "weak"; terrorists can kill hundreds of civilians, yet people treat them with sympathy because "they're weak" and "they have no choice." You ignore the fact that those terrorists, "partisans", "freedom-fighters", however you wish to call them often don't know themselves what they want. Of course, they say "liberate our people/land/country/etc.", but once they are given a chance, what do they do with it? NOTHING. Let me illustrate what I mean. Let's take the situation in Israel. I'm sure you're all quite familiar with it--the media in your country probably tells you that the poor, innocent, heroic Palestinians fight for their liberation from the Israeli aggressor. However, going back in time we see quite a different picture: In 2000 Ehud Barak (the Israeli prime minister back then) was willing to grant the Palestinian people about all they have wished for, this despite the heavy economical, strategic and territorial loses this will impose on Israel. Yet, Arafat (the Palestinian leader) refused to sign the agreement. Diana's example of the situation in Russia only further illustrates my point; Russia pulled out, and the Chechens "thanked" them with more attacks. For those of you who like lioness sympathize with the terrorists' side, what exactly do you expect countries like Russia to do? Pull out? Give the terrorists what they want? But they have already done it! What else can they do? Should they allow terrorists to bomb and tear their country into pieces, just because terrorists are supposedly "weaker"? They are clearly doing the only thing they can do in a situation like this--defend themselves. And stop judging them, if you were in their situation you would have done the same thing.

Second, how far back do you want to go in history? Lioness mentioned that Russia conquered Chechnia in the 19th century (200 years ago). That's Russia. What about other countries??? The U.S--do you expect all Americans to go where they originally came from (Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.)? How about Britain? A historical glance reveals that Englishmen were originally Anglo-Saxons, they came from a territory that is now part of Germany. Should the English be sent to Germany, then? (A historic glance, by the way, also reveals that Israel used to belong to the Jewish people). But what if we look even further in history? Believing Darwin's theory of evolution, we all evolved from the apes in Africa. That's great guys, let's just all go to Africa and solve all the historical injustices.

People, learn to ask questions instead of just quoting what you hear on the media.

[ilya]

Russia conquered Siberia some hundreds years ago, but districts in Syberia don`t try to separate from Russia. And Chechnya didn`t try to separate until one general Dudaev arranged a revolt. Chechnya was the same district like others 88 districts of Russia. Chechnya was probably the most beautiful place in Russia and Groznyi (the capital of Checnya) was as beautiful as Moscow. Now Groznya is completly destroyed, it would be difficult for you to find any safe building in Groznyi.
Who did want this war? Chechnya? Chechnya was the rich region because it had a lot of reserves of oil. Now the whole oil system of Chechnya is detroyed. Civil people were happy, they never try to separate.
But there was Dudaev. The man who decided to become a hero or something else. If there is any reason for war, but it wasn`t. There was only Dudaev and a groupe around him. Russian troops had to come in Chehnya and occupied it, but that troops weren`t ready for partisan and terroristic war (like american are not ready in Iraq now), so Eltzin returned them. He betrayed Russia, Chechnya and poor children in Beslan.
Chechnya has gotten the limit separation in the summer of 1996. What was after that? Three years of hell. Russia went away from Chechnya, Chechnya has gotten itself president like other national republics of Russia (Bashkortastan, Tatarstan). But who was around this "president"? Bandits. They set arabic laws ("shariat"), stealing of people, torture. When bandits cut fingers away in order relativs to pay ransom.
Western mass-media write knowing nothing about Chechnya. They didn`t know history relations with Chechney, current postion there. But they should write something, so they write stamps. We all want the piece. I was three days in depression after releasing. I didn`t feel anger. I just wasn`t able for that.
It was shown on TV: a huge, strong soldier from special troops took a small girl out of that school. He stood with women around him holding the girl on the hands. And this girl died in his hands. Women started to cry loudly. And tears were falling down from eyes of this tough soldied. He clasped her and walked away. I was shocked. This vision will stay in front of my eyes all my life.
The more than a half of terrorists were arabs. For what did they fight? For Chechnya?
And you want us to come through the whole this hell again that we had. We are suffering because of the weakness of Eltzin. We try to arrange peaceful life in Chechnya. But this bandits don`t want this because they would lose the last chance they had after a mistake of Eltzin. It`s a tremendous difficult to make Checnya peace but we had no way except this one. They are terrorists, WHO KILLED 150 CHILDREN!!!!