|
Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
togo
Joined: 27 Sep 2003 Posts: 3
|
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:40 am Post subject: for or with |
|
|
I would like to know the following:
If Bank of America have (or has?) me working as an employee, which is the correct sentence?
- I work FOR Bank of America.
- I work WITH Bank of America.
And also about the contents of the second paragraph, concerning Bank of America have or has. That is, a company is singular or plural?
I thank you in advance for your attention. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bud
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 2111 Location: New Jersey, US
|
Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A company is singular, so you would say "If BoA has me..."
In the US, we say that we work for our employer. (It's possible that in other countries they use a different preposition.)
Good luck! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
advoca
Joined: 09 Oct 2003 Posts: 422 Location: Beijing
|
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
1. You work FOR THE Bank of America (don't forget the the).
2. You work WITH lots of other emploees who work for the Bank of America. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bud
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 2111 Location: New Jersey, US
|
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Advoca, I have to disagree that "the" is necessary in that statement. "I work for Bank of America" is perfectly fine. Maybe that is a geographical preference? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
advoca
Joined: 09 Oct 2003 Posts: 422 Location: Beijing
|
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 5:46 pm Post subject: Use of the |
|
|
No, Bud. I am afraid you are wrong. Sorry!
You can work for Microsoft, Wal-Mart, China Telecoms, and so on becaue they are entities. But Bank of America is not, You have to work for THE Bank of America, THE Bank of Chona, and so forth. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bud
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 2111 Location: New Jersey, US
|
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry, Advoca, but I still disagree. I bank at Mariner's Bank even though my sister works for Bank of America. There's nothing wrong with that statement. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
advoca
Joined: 09 Oct 2003 Posts: 422 Location: Beijing
|
Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:19 pm Post subject: At Mariner's Bank? |
|
|
OK, Bud. You continue to say that you bank at Mariner's Bank and your sister works for Bank of America, though many people would consider that you are speaking incorrectly and ungrammatically.
But you teach your students your English, and I'll teach them my English. No harm will be done either way. Let's agree to differ. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bud
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 2111 Location: New Jersey, US
|
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
lol... Advoca, you are too much! What makes you think that I am an English teacher? And from another post, what makes you think I was born and raised in New Jersey (and thus speak like you seem to think a New Jerseyan speaks)? You like to assume, don't you?
But most importantly, you are wrong on this point. Or, if not, then I suggest you instruct BoA itself, and the financial world , as to how to correctly refer to it. I'm sure they'd be very happy to receive your expert advice. If you doubt me, then do a search on BoA and check out a few of the links. See for yoiurself as to how it is generally referred.
I don't know, but perhaps you are confusing when "The" is part of the widely-known name of the entity, and when "the" is actually required. (Please not the difference in capitalization).
If you truly want to be a good teacher, Advoca, be a little less sure of yourself, don't assume so much, and be a little more open to listening once in a while. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
obelix
Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 304
|
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
If the Bank of America is the national bank, like The Bank of England, then I believe you should say, "I work for The Bank of America." The Bank's correct title is The Bank of America If you are being lazy you can leave out The and everyone will know what you mean, but the idea here is to help foreign students to speak correct English. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bud
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 2111 Location: New Jersey, US
|
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
No, Obelix, it is not a matter of being lazy. It's a matter of what is correct. And no, there is nothing official about Bank of America. It is just a large public corporation that was named very well, judging by the confusion. The national bank of the US is commonly called The Fed, short for The Federal Reserve.
Here's a sample of what you will find if you do a search on Bank of America and look at some of the links:
"'At Bank of America, we provide financial support that enables small business customers to succeed personally and professionally,' said David Hoppenworth, Bank of America manager of government lending for the Atlantic region..." (beginning of 6th paragraph of a BoA press release)
"One of the world's leading financial services companies, Bank of America is committed to making banking work for customers and clients like it never has before. Through innovative technologies and the ingenuity of its people, Bank of America provides individuals, small businesses and commercial, corporate and institutional clients across the United States and around the world new and better ways to manage their financial lives..." (beginning of next to last paragraph of same document. Plus there are several usages similar to this one throughout.)
-- http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031024/nyf021_1.html
"... The ratings are based on Bank of America's experienced management team, strong financial performance and a robust internal control environment..." (middle of first paragraph, plus look beyond in this short article and you will see several other examples)
-- http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20031022005613&newsLang=en
"Sihpol -- who worked at Bank of America from Dec. 2000 until Sept. 10, 2003 -- has already incurred about $130,000 in legal costs, according to the complaint." (fifth from last paragraph in a Forbes article... Maybe you don't need 'the' if you say 'worked at,' yet for some reason you can only say 'work for THE BoA?' Is it the verb tense or the particular prepostion used that makes it so?)
But... "'Mr. Sihpol is facing criminal and civil proceedings arising out of activities he allegedly undertook for the Bank of America, of which his was an officer and employee,' said C. Evan Stewart, a lawyer for Sihpol." (Same article. See, you can insert a 'the' if you so choose, I guess, but it is not necessary. Btw, this is the only reference using 'the' that I saw. It could be that Siphol's lawyer was making a grammatical mistake.)
-- http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2003/10/24/rtr1122425.html
"McInnis, at Bank of America, could not discuss that specific case, but he acknowledged that the bank has certain standards such as the guideline mentioned by Cohen..." (from near the middle of a CNBC article)
-- http://famulus.msnbc.com/famuluscom/bizjournal10-25-010826.asp?bizj=TRI
"Shares of Bank of America , the second largest banking company in the United States by market capitalisation, are listed on the New York, Pacific and London stock exchanges..." (beginning of last paragraph of a BoA press release on Germany's Deutches Aktieninstitut's website)
-- http://nachrichten.boerse.de/anzeige.php3?id=715d8146
"At Bank of America, meanwhile, 'it looks like the consumer business was stronger than we were expecting, with less of a fall-off in mortgages that we had feared,' he said..." (beginning of middle paragraph from Malaysia's The Star Online)
... http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2003/10/16/business/6498053&sec=business
.
.
.
I don't know if I have convinced you, but in my mind the necessity of using 'the' is a matter of whether or not 'The' is part of the well-known name. BoA itself doesn't use a 'the,' and neither does the press. Is everyone else wrong on this point? What is the grammatical difference in that you can say "I work for Wal-Mart," yet you have to say "I work for THE Bank of America?"
Btw, Advoca, in an earlier post you wrote...
"You can work for Microsoft, Wal-Mart, China Telecoms, and so on becaue they are entities. But Bank of America is not, You have to work for THE Bank of America, THE Bank of Chona, and so forth."
I neglected to comment on this before, but where in the world did you get that from? What do you mean BoA is not an entity? What do you think it is? Perhaps The Bank of China is the official bank of The People's Republic? Well, it is an entity nonetheless. And would you please share that rule on articles-with-entities with us?
Regards,
Bud |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
obelix
Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 304
|
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for your information about Bank of America.
I would not say "I work for Bank of England", though.
I guess the rule is that if the word, The is part of the title you should use it.
So, if you are referring to The Federal Reserve do you say, "I work for The Federal Reserve" or is it customary to leave it out in the USA? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
obelix
Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 304
|
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for your information about Bank of America.
I would not say "I work for Bank of England", though.
I guess the rule is that if the word, The is part of the title you should use it.
So, if you are referring to The Federal Reserve do you say, "I work for The Federal Reserve" or is it customary to leave it out in the USA? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bud
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 2111 Location: New Jersey, US
|
Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't say "I work for Bank of England" either.
No, it's customary to use 'The.' "I work for The Federal Reserve," or more often, "I work for The Fed."
It is the bankers' bank, not a public bank. You cannot go there to open a checking account or apply for a loan. In addition to services to banks, it also is in charge of our currency and establishes basic interest rates - probably other things, too.
Can an individual use the Bank of England? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
obelix
Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 304
|
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Bank of England is like The Federal Reserve.
I just read that Bank of America is trying to merge with Fleet Boston and if it succeeds, it will be the second largest bank in the world!
It doesn't say whether it will be the second best. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bud
Joined: 09 Mar 2003 Posts: 2111 Location: New Jersey, US
|
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well guess what? It's looking like BoA will now be my bank, the fourth takeover of my bank in 7-8 years. I still have checks from 4 banks ago.
The paper said today that BoA's customer satisfaction rating is slightly below average for commercial banks, but still a considerable improvement over Fleet's rating... So no, it probably will not be the second best, even in the US.
What timing, huh? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|