Sorry to be late to this discussion. I found a new site, www.kindersite.org that has loads of fantastic content, games/stories/songs. It's primarily aimed at early learners but the've got language classes from schools all over the world trying out the site from the USA to Lithuania, I even saw one from the Sudan.
The most interesting thing is that the kids/students usage of the site is being used as a research project to understand what is effective or not in digital content.
The've got loads of PhDs involved and the content is the best i've seen.
New Thread - Grim realities of teaching & games
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
What is a game?
Games seem to me to be learning activities that stress a playful attitude more than other activities and often have an element of competition. Larry's original example of what he preferred -on the other thread- could easily be turned into a game through the addition of competition. First team to find all the examples. Or first team to weed out non-verb -ing examples - such as those brought up by Neil. First team to come up with a functional rule.
Or the teams could compete as teachers. Form a small group of those having trouble distinguishing (say) present continuous from PS. The two teams are given the same authentic text - following Larry's example. They must 1) underline all examples 2) develop a way of teaching the grammatical issue to the ones who are having trouble. First team to finish gets to present first - hopefully an advantage, perhaps not. The students who have been having trouble vote for which teach came up with the most helpful explanation.
I guess what I've done here is moved from a not-so-clearly gamelike activity and tried to add game-ish (not gamey) qualities. To move in the other direction, take a game like 20 questions. This could be made more to Larry's original position's satisfaction if the teacher listens in on the groups playing 20? and then writes questions with word order problems on the board. After the teams have played for 15 minutes or finished the first round, the groups compete to find errors in the questions the teacher has written on the board. Now the game is played another round, hopefully with better word orders. Repeat.
Games generally are restrictions on behavior with goals - puns intended, this includes football. That's the fun: can I get the ball there without my hands, competing with those other guys and/or gals.
Most traditional educational activities -at least the ones I underwent as a child- fail to make these restrictions as fun, intriguing, interesting as possible. Or the teachers failed to stress creativity in general, on their own parts, on ours.
Rightly or wrongly I stress fluency much more than accuracy. I realize that these are overlapping areas and most exercises train, to some degree both. 20 questions forces people to say "Is it" or questions like "Can you ____ with it?" many, many times and the speed and comfort one gains doing that is very useful. But above a certain ability level the students should get something more. But this moreness could easily be part of rules/qualities added to the game.
I became a language teacher after being an immigrant and going through second language training - I still live in that non-english speaking land. I cannot tell you how glad I am that I was forced to repeat the equivalent of 'I would like....' 'Is it a....?' 'It's made of....' and the like in a variety of games.
'I..........would..........like......' is a stage I am so glad I could pass quickly, and the game got me there. And these were fairly loose, traditional games.
So...can you take your 'very educational learning activities' and give them life, creativity and power by giving them more game qualities?
Can you take your 'games' and make them more demanding or focused
or part of a sequence so that the students are not simply treading water but swimming somewhere?
Or the teams could compete as teachers. Form a small group of those having trouble distinguishing (say) present continuous from PS. The two teams are given the same authentic text - following Larry's example. They must 1) underline all examples 2) develop a way of teaching the grammatical issue to the ones who are having trouble. First team to finish gets to present first - hopefully an advantage, perhaps not. The students who have been having trouble vote for which teach came up with the most helpful explanation.
I guess what I've done here is moved from a not-so-clearly gamelike activity and tried to add game-ish (not gamey) qualities. To move in the other direction, take a game like 20 questions. This could be made more to Larry's original position's satisfaction if the teacher listens in on the groups playing 20? and then writes questions with word order problems on the board. After the teams have played for 15 minutes or finished the first round, the groups compete to find errors in the questions the teacher has written on the board. Now the game is played another round, hopefully with better word orders. Repeat.
Games generally are restrictions on behavior with goals - puns intended, this includes football. That's the fun: can I get the ball there without my hands, competing with those other guys and/or gals.
Most traditional educational activities -at least the ones I underwent as a child- fail to make these restrictions as fun, intriguing, interesting as possible. Or the teachers failed to stress creativity in general, on their own parts, on ours.
Rightly or wrongly I stress fluency much more than accuracy. I realize that these are overlapping areas and most exercises train, to some degree both. 20 questions forces people to say "Is it" or questions like "Can you ____ with it?" many, many times and the speed and comfort one gains doing that is very useful. But above a certain ability level the students should get something more. But this moreness could easily be part of rules/qualities added to the game.
I became a language teacher after being an immigrant and going through second language training - I still live in that non-english speaking land. I cannot tell you how glad I am that I was forced to repeat the equivalent of 'I would like....' 'Is it a....?' 'It's made of....' and the like in a variety of games.
'I..........would..........like......' is a stage I am so glad I could pass quickly, and the game got me there. And these were fairly loose, traditional games.
So...can you take your 'very educational learning activities' and give them life, creativity and power by giving them more game qualities?
Can you take your 'games' and make them more demanding or focused
or part of a sequence so that the students are not simply treading water but swimming somewhere?
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LarryLatham
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- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
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tom_thomas
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:51 pm
lengthy contributions
Nice to see so much interested generated here, but I wonder if there is a written equivalent of TTT (teacher talking time) which we might also try to curb as we attempt to convey our thoughts? These forums would be much more useful and practical if we all tried to limit ideas, suggestions, comments to one topic and hopefully, one short paragraph. Remember, a teacher's greatest challenge is not only a successful lesson, but finding the to time plan such a lesson. 
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Re: lengthy contributions
My goodness, I take it you don't post on forums muchtom_thomas wrote:Nice to see so much interested generated here, but I wonder if there is a written equivalent of TTT (teacher talking time) which we might also try to curb as we attempt to convey our thoughts? These forums would be much more useful and practical if we all tried to limit ideas, suggestions, comments to one topic and hopefully, one short paragraph. Remember, a teacher's greatest challenge is not only a successful lesson, but finding the to time plan such a lesson.
It is sort of a tradition, humans being the way we are, that threads tend to meander and everyone gets a chance to talk. It's kind of interesting for me to see what evolves. You can always skip the ones that look too long (although some of those have been quite interesting) 
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LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
Dyslexic blackouts....
Hey guys and gals!
I wanted to address something Rania asked about, that is, how we English teachers write in these forums. I'm not going to guess about others, but if any of you recognize yourselves in what I write, raise your hands....
Firstly, when I am writing as I am now, that is, improvising on the way, there is a good probability that I haven't spelled a word right, spelling has never been my forte and now with Spellcheck and so little time (I teach 29 hours a week, plus prep, plus making lunch, shopping, etc...haha) I really don't bother to look words up, let the program do that work for me. I might also make occasional grammar mistakes, I've been living in Spain for fifteen years and only speak Spanish and sometimes I make the same mistakes as they do.
However, when I am writing something that I want to be clear about, I tend to write it first in a Word document and work on it for a day or so before cutting and pasting it herein. I think it is important that the writing be clear, well organized, well put, or I am sure no one will read it (I pass over long, unstructured entries in forums....but I love to read long, well organized essays....)
Finally, and this applies to both improvisation as well as prepared essays, I always read the words out loud before hitting the "post" button. That way I get a feel for what I am saying, I catch silly little errors, even big flub ups, and it gives my writing a sound. So often I've wished that other writers would bother to do the same, though I am not talking about any writer in particular in this forum, haven't been a member that long.
I think a lot of misunderstanding would be avoided if people were to read their posts out loud before posting them. Sometimes I have been peeved because someone has said "you are wrong" or "you are making an elementary mistake" and I have to add the grain of salt because I haven't heard that person say those things, and written, we might be just misunderstanding the message for lack of tone of voice.
peace,
revel.
I wanted to address something Rania asked about, that is, how we English teachers write in these forums. I'm not going to guess about others, but if any of you recognize yourselves in what I write, raise your hands....
Firstly, when I am writing as I am now, that is, improvising on the way, there is a good probability that I haven't spelled a word right, spelling has never been my forte and now with Spellcheck and so little time (I teach 29 hours a week, plus prep, plus making lunch, shopping, etc...haha) I really don't bother to look words up, let the program do that work for me. I might also make occasional grammar mistakes, I've been living in Spain for fifteen years and only speak Spanish and sometimes I make the same mistakes as they do.
However, when I am writing something that I want to be clear about, I tend to write it first in a Word document and work on it for a day or so before cutting and pasting it herein. I think it is important that the writing be clear, well organized, well put, or I am sure no one will read it (I pass over long, unstructured entries in forums....but I love to read long, well organized essays....)
Finally, and this applies to both improvisation as well as prepared essays, I always read the words out loud before hitting the "post" button. That way I get a feel for what I am saying, I catch silly little errors, even big flub ups, and it gives my writing a sound. So often I've wished that other writers would bother to do the same, though I am not talking about any writer in particular in this forum, haven't been a member that long.
I think a lot of misunderstanding would be avoided if people were to read their posts out loud before posting them. Sometimes I have been peeved because someone has said "you are wrong" or "you are making an elementary mistake" and I have to add the grain of salt because I haven't heard that person say those things, and written, we might be just misunderstanding the message for lack of tone of voice.
peace,
revel.
Hi Tom,Nice to see so much interested generated here, but I wonder if there is a written equivalent of TTT (teacher talking time) which we might also try to curb as we attempt to convey our thoughts? These forums would be much more useful and practical if we all tried to limit ideas, suggestions, comments to one topic and hopefully, one short paragraph. Remember, a teacher's greatest challenge is not only a successful lesson, but finding the to time plan such a lesson. [/i]
That may be directed (in part) at me, seeing as I have been ...eh... rather verbose on this forum.
I don't know what sort of a situation you are teaching in, but I work freelance in a rather big city. I don't know most of my colleagues because we obviously all work similar hours but shuttle back and forth between different schools and, often, different towns. We see each other once or twice a year at seminars, generally by chance. A forum like this is an excellent opportunity for teachers like me to discuss issues with peers and colleagues. I firmly believe that, even more so than in a face to face discussion, certain points need to be taken up and teased out before all involved understand what one is trying to say. Being picked up on a point you made is fantastic - it makes you think about what you have written and helps you learn a lot about what you think, how you teach, and how you basically expresse these feelings, I guess. I know this discussion was certainly very helpful to me.
So, to echo Lorikeet - if the message looks too wordy, dowload it and read it in your free time, if you are interested in doing so. If not, skip it. I, for one, won't be insulted
All the best,
Rania
Hi Tom,Nice to see so much interested generated here, but I wonder if there is a written equivalent of TTT (teacher talking time) which we might also try to curb as we attempt to convey our thoughts? These forums would be much more useful and practical if we all tried to limit ideas, suggestions, comments to one topic and hopefully, one short paragraph. Remember, a teacher's greatest challenge is not only a successful lesson, but finding the to time plan such a lesson. [/i]
That may be directed (in part) at me, seeing as I have been ...eh... rather verbose on this forum.
I don't know what sort of a situation you are teaching in, but I work freelance in a rather big city. I don't know most of my colleagues because we obviously all work similar hours but shuttle back and forth between different schools and, often, different towns. We see each other once or twice a year at seminars, generally by chance. A forum like this is an excellent opportunity for teachers like me to discuss issues with peers and colleagues. I firmly believe that, even more so than in a face to face discussion, certain points need to be taken up and teased out before all involved understand what one is trying to say. Being picked up on a point you made is fantastic - it makes you think about what you have written and helps you learn a lot about what you think, how you teach, and how you basically expresse these feelings, I guess. I know this discussion was certainly very helpful to me.
So, to echo Lorikeet - if the message looks too wordy, dowload it and read it in your free time, if you are interested in doing so. If not, skip it. I, for one, won't be insulted
All the best,
Rania
Role of the teacher
Perhaps this deserves a new thread, but I'll tackle it here. What is the role of the teacher? That is a fundamental question and will largely deterimine your style of teaching. We have probably all endured classes where the instructor/master/lecturer thought s/he had to have absolute control. I suspect that their rigidity had to do with their fear of losing control (and with roudy, disinterested teens, I suppose that is a real possibility.) But a creative, flexible approach is easier on everyone. I usually introduce myself to a new group of students (either English, or aviation mechanic--engineer for those of you over the water-), give them my qualifications, then ask them if they think that I can teach them. Most of the time they say yes. Then I tell them that I can't teach them a thing, but that I am ready, willing and qualified to help them learn. All you can do as a teacher is create an environment where it is possible for the student to learn, but the onus is on the student, s/he is responsible for the learning. As the old saying goes, you can't force the horse to drink, but you can put salt in his feed! You can make it more desirable for the student to learn.
I like that expression, "Stealth teaching". I defend the idea of "games", as long as they do more than just waste time in an enjoyable way. They have to have a purpose. But class time has to be more than fun and games. The ideal environment for learning is in a relaxed, enjoyable, slightly stressful environment. "Stress" has gotten a bad rap lately, and as anything, in excess of course is harmful. But without a bit of stress there is no incentive to learn. As a wise, creative, experienced teacher, you are responsible to find that balance between just enough fun to keep them coming back, and just enough stress to keep them making progress. That balance will probably be different for every group you have.
Brian in Brazil
I like that expression, "Stealth teaching". I defend the idea of "games", as long as they do more than just waste time in an enjoyable way. They have to have a purpose. But class time has to be more than fun and games. The ideal environment for learning is in a relaxed, enjoyable, slightly stressful environment. "Stress" has gotten a bad rap lately, and as anything, in excess of course is harmful. But without a bit of stress there is no incentive to learn. As a wise, creative, experienced teacher, you are responsible to find that balance between just enough fun to keep them coming back, and just enough stress to keep them making progress. That balance will probably be different for every group you have.
Brian in Brazil
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LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
What is the teacher's role in ESL classes?
I like your ideas, Brian, probably because they square pretty well with my own (...so far ).
But the most important thing in your post above, is the original question, which is so fundamental that we teachers gloss over it so easily without really considering it carefully. I do believe we should consider it with care, and probably do that repeatedly at some interval (like annually maybe).
It will be interesting to see what turns up here!
Larry Latham
).But the most important thing in your post above, is the original question, which is so fundamental that we teachers gloss over it so easily without really considering it carefully. I do believe we should consider it with care, and probably do that repeatedly at some interval (like annually maybe).
It will be interesting to see what turns up here!
Larry Latham
Teaching with fun and games
Best resource for teaching with games is at http://eslgames.com/