Student's inactive attitude in class

[bstwhitepigg]

I am an English-major student in Taiwan. I want to share my experience of taking the conversation class. It’s about 18 students in the class. In college, this kind of class is very small and supposed to have a very active participation between students and instructor; however, the real situation is not like that. In class, the instructor, no matter how interesting or boring he is, when he is teaching students, asking questions or asking for response, but all students sitting there and remains silence. After a long time waiting, few of students will give the answer to break the embarrassment. This kind of situation happens all the time. In the class, there are always some fixed students to answer questions and others answer questions unless they are being forced. Most students are too shy to open their mouth to speak, because they are afraid of giving wrong answer or they think that their English is not good enough to speak. Every time I come across this kind of situation, I will have a little bit anger, because it’s not what I want in the conversation class. Conversation class is supposed to be happy, active and excited. When I look back to my class, I think it’s not excessive to call my conversation class as a busted lesson. I don’t know whether anybody have the same experience with me, maybe you want to share yours with me or give me some advices.

[Ivy]

I am a English-major student, too. In my opinion, you should be patience to this situtation. I am the one who keep slience in class. I accept that I am too shy to speak out my idea. At this moment, you should give a hand to those people like me, and do not get angry so easily!! I will greatly appreciate your kindness.

[guest]

Well, I was a english major before. From my view, it's a matter of class culture or atmophere. If your class is as slient as a ghost ship, then some one has to be a ice breaker. Then things will be better. It did work in my class before. try it.

[Simon Yang]

Most common met problems and reasons why students in Taiwan fear to spak up in class, as you say, are 1) they are afraid of making mistakes and thus "losing face" 2) they think thier English is not good enough 3) they don't know what to say. Sometimes these problems result from a lack of confidence and practice, and sometimes it's just a characteristic of a person's aptitude and personality. Some people tend to be shy; it's inevitable. Nevertheless, we can try to solve the problem by building up confidence and by intense practice. Don't look for fancy words and pay less attention to grammar when you try to speak in English. And get a complete sentence first before you try to develop it further. As for shyness, i believe it can be mended through involvement in interaction with and exposure to various people. Besides, it's much easier to speak a foreign language within a group of people who share the same mother language with you (try to compare to speak English within a group of Americans in a class), because you woun't feel any pressure or intimidated. Needless to say, to prevent a conversation class from being a "busted lesson", namely, a totoal disaster and disappointment for mant students, class participation should be highlighted. Of course, not only students but teachers are responsible for it. Therefore, to stand at an optimist's point of view, if the teacher can build a friendly relationship with his or her students and try not to be so hard on them, and the students can overcome the difficulties of "opening their mouths", i believe conversation classes would still be worth taking.

[LarryLatham]

It is illuminating indeed to read all your comments here, and you all show a sense of bravery to write in English here for the whole world to see. It is not easy for you, and I think I can safely speak for all my teaching colleagues when I say, "Bravo".

It is hard for me to put myself in your place, except to say that I taught in Taipei for four years in the early and mid-nineties (1993-1997 to be precise). While there, I started learning Mandarin, and found myself in the same boat with you...feeling shy and finding it hard to speak...mostly, I think, for fear of making a fool of myself and showing how little I knew of Mandarin. So I can empathize with you.

But I was also a teacher...sometimes of "conversation" classes. I taught at two schools, NTU Evening Division, and TLI (Taipei Language Institute). I agree with Simon, here, that teachers are part of the problem. I say that because, despite what I've heard from all of you and from many other Chinese students as well about this problem, I seldom had it to any appreciable degree in my classes. I don't mean to suggest that I am a better teacher than others are, but that perhaps there is a particular attitude, or quirk of personality that some teachers have for bringing out students' willingness to try in class. There were always rewards from me for students who made the effort. I don't mean little candies or toys, but a clear showing of appreciation from me. I made it clear that I respected those who tried...even when they did not completely succeed. No one ever tried without some measure of success. I could always find that and manage to praise that part of the student's effort. I also made much less of an issue about the errors. I firmly believe that students cannot be held responsible for "perfect English", first because there is no such thing, and second, precisely because they are students. They are learning the language...they haven't yet mastered it. Expecting perfection from them is stupid and unnecessary. Why would they be in the class if they have already perfected their English?

All I can suggest to you all is keep going. Recognize your own personality, and work within that as best you can, but don't give up. Learning English (learning any other language besides your first language) will change your life. It will open up new worlds for you. It may help you to embark on careers which would be closed to you without your knowledge and skill in a new language. It may expose you to a whole world of literature, art, movies and music that you could not fully appreciate without your skill in language. Don't give up!

Larry Latham

[juyu522]

i went to UK for a short time learning last summer vacation. we also had a small class for conversation.when the first time i came to the class, i was so shy to talk in front of everyone, and also, i was surprised that everyone from other countries were so passionate about anwering questions. so i decided to talk as more as i could. few days later, i found it was not so hard to talk in the class, and i found that i wouldn't be scared to do so!i even LOVE to talk to everyone. after that summer. i came back to my school in taipei and i also had a conversation lesson. in the beginning, i talked a lot and felt easy to talk in front everyone. but later, i was infuented by the "slient atmosphere". i wouldn't talk anymore except the teacher called me for a conversation. i was disappointed with myself... and i think that i cannot change this kind of situation in taiwan. i felt strange if i talked"TOO MUCH" in class!! but i still think that men are pontential, just like i did in uk!! so... just try ur best to conflict with the embarrassment.

[surrealia]

I am currently teaching full-time at a university in Taiwan, so a lot of what you say, bstwhitepig, is interesting to me. I know many other university instructors and professors who have the same problem. It's hard to get Taiwanese university students to talk and discuss in English.

Here are some things that work for me. If I call out a student's name and ask a question, I get a better response than just blurting out a question and trying to get people to volunteer. Giving students more time to prepare answers (even in writing) helps, too. Sometimes I write two big headings on the board "QUESTIONS" and "COMMENTS" and invite students to come up and write questions and comments on whatever subject we're covering. Then we use what has been written on the board for further discussion. Some types of activities seem to work very well(guessing games, role play), some don't work at all (information gap).
I agree with Larry that it is important to show respect and appreciation for the students who break the silence.

In cases where students will not speak at all, I try to focus on other skills, listening and reading, and hope that they are learning something even if they are not speaking much.

[Sally Olsen]

It is not only in Taiwan that this happens. It happens in Japan, Mongolia and Greenland too. I found it quite natural that one or two people whose English is very good are appointed or approved by the group to talk. It is just the way it works in their families at home too. I soon got to know who were the best students and then sent them on an errand or to the library to do something special for me for a couple of classes and then the next in line spoke and I would send them off and so on. When I got enough that I had a leader for each group of four students, I split them into groups of four and they sat together and had discussions. They also had to meet after class and talk on the tape recorder together once a month. They couldn't prepare a script and the leader had to make sure that everyone talked by asking them questions. They listened to the tapes and could do it again as often as they wanted. I showed them parts of movies with subtitles where there are four or more characters talking and then they each took a part and did one character's lines. They made up their own plays as well and memorized their lines and then performed this for another group of four. As you said though, some people are just quiet people in whatever language and so I had them make a tape for me each week just to prove that they could speak English so I could give them a mark. They had to speak for 30 minutes on any subject and it helps if it was something that we discussed in class. Those students never did speak out in class but sometimes spoke to me after class which was great. I would answer any questions or carry on the topic as if it was a conversation between us and heard some interesting things about their lives and the country. Seems to me there was a good book called
Talkativities that we used too.

[LarryLatham]

I think, Sally, that you must be an amazing teacher. Thank goodness there are a few of you who can show the rest of us the way forward.

Larry Latham

[flymonkey]

In fact, I have the same situation to you. My English conversation class is boring as well. At first , we read the textbook and then have a discussion. Next, we discuss the topic on the textbook and have a speech or role play. That's it! Simple and easy. We spend most of our time on discussion. However, our performances are not very well. It seems not very serious but our teacher doesn't say anything. He just let the process of the class complete and then he finishes his job. Everytime when I go to the class, I always feel bored.

[cosette]

That is quite true that in Taiwan students are shy when it is time for them to speak loudly in class, especially the conversation class. to solve this problem. we have to find the reason that forms it. In my opinion, the reason for it lies behind culture difference. The Asians are more humble that the westerners. We seldom present our opinions in a group, and and we seldom compete with pthers in a group. We accept others' opinion but it doesn't mean that we follow them. We always work hard right behind people. Now the world is a global village, and we get more and more oppotunities to communicate with different culture. We can't hold on ourselves anymore, and we have to learn the good quality of different culture.

[terrylei]

I teach English conversation at a college in Beijing and when I first came here some two and a half years ago, the first problem that confronted me was getting students ‘to open their mouths’. Except for a handful of more capable students, nobody would speak, even when asked a question directly. It was quite humorous really. You’d ask the student a question and her head would drop. You’d ask her again, and her head would drop further forward. Ask again and her face would be almost on the desktop.

After a good deal of frustration, I introduced progressive assessment. The school would not allow me to do away with the final exam, but I got around it by telling students that they may be awarded a grading （from 1 to 5 points）for the work they did in class，that what they did in class would amount to 60% of their final results and the final exam would account for only 40%. This meant that, if they did not get sufficient marks in class, there was no way they could pass for the term.

Along with this, of course, I am always friendly and gentle with students, express praise (if for nothing else than that they had a go) or appreciation of their effort wherever I can and never, ever make fun or give demeaning of criticism their efforts. I have found this to be fairly effective and almost nobody simply clams up anymore. Of course, there are still many students who will not usually volunteer a response, but at least they make the attempt when asked directly. I find it helpful to know all the students names as soon as possible and to use them whenever addressing questions. This is also helpful for marking too because you can do it after the class by recollection – otherwise you have to ask the student’s name and stop to mark down a grade (the latter is useful, however, from time to time just to remind them that they are, in fact, being marked).

Inevitably, one does not remember every student’s performance (answering questions, performing role plays, giving talks – whatever) following the class, but I mark those that I can recall, which is usually somewhere between 40 and 60% of the class (Class sizes range from 25 to 50). That is why I tell them that they MAY (not WILL) get a mark each class. (To stop and award points for each and every student performance would be distracting and generally wasteful of the class’s time.) I explain that at the end of the term everyone should have a number of gradings and that, for each student, I select her 5 best gradings, add them and divide by 25 (the maximum possible for 5 gradings) to get an average, multiply that by 60, then divide by 100 to arrive at their score for 60% of the course. Likewise, for their exams, I explain that I multiply the score by 40 and then again divide the result by 100, so that their exam score would constitute a result for 40% of the course. By adding these two results together, I will derive their overall score for the course. I also tell students that it’s very likely that I’ll give them a mark for conversations I have with them outside of class, so long as it’s in English – and I do. I find many of the students talk to me in English outside class now, whereas at first it was mostly Chinese. I still find there will be a few very reticent students, who somehow frequently escape my attention in class, so that every now and then I have to see who is not accumulating enough gradings and make a point of targeting them in class, so that they will catch up some. It sometimes helps too to let these individuals know that they are falling behind a bit and then they will often make the effort to respond more frequently.

Well, I could still wish for better response from students and no doubt there are many other initiatives which could be taken to get students talking more (Sally Olsen has come up with some great ideas and I will be looking to see if I can’t implement some of these), but I have found that this type of progressive assessment has done a lot to ‘break the ice’ in my classes.

Tez

[annemariecarina]

Hello,
we are two TEFL students and we often experience problems with motivating pupils, sometimes it seems even impossible! We find it very difficult and all tips on how to solve this problem are welcome!

[ricky]

Hi, just a couple of observations, and feel free to completely disregard what I say since I have no experience of teaching in Taiwan.

Maybe the ss will be more willing to talk in small groups or closed pairs to get their confidence before moving to open pairs and group discussion.

The other point is give them something interesting to talk about that will get a reaction. I'm English and I teach in Spain, Gibraltar normally does the trick for me!

All the best

Ricky

[hanka]

Hi,
I agree with what Ricky says although I don't think I would want to get involved in anything controversial!

What I normally do is start my students working together in pairs A & B with a question sheet, e.g A has questions 1-10 and B has questions 11-20 so they have to listen because there is a genuine information gap. They work through them gradually and you stress the importance of this being a conversation and not an interrogation, and encourage the students to ask, listen and respond. All too often ss just go through the motions of doing a speaking activity without really communicating and listening.

Another important factor is that the ss don't just read the questions out; they have to read them silently first, remember them and then ask them without looking at the paper. You can also get them to practise the correct intonation when asking. e.g falling for 'wh' question and the fall and rise of auxiliary yes-no questions.

After getting them warmed up I usually put them into groups or have a plenary session to discuss any interesting answers and opinions.

The whole idea for me is to create a very supportive atmosphere where you are not forcing the ss to do anything uncomfortable. Its a gradual process and in the end you will be surprised how many are willing to offer their thoughts and opinions. Not everybody will initially, and that's OK but it won't be long before even the most reticent will start offering more.

Just a few thoughts
Hanka