Division of classrooms by ability?

Sally Olsen · Post by **Sally Olsen** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:33 pm

Do you think the formation of classes should be based on ability? How would you do that? What are the advantages or disadvantages? Does anyone do it?

crow · Post by **crow** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:18 am

I'd like to try forming classes based on ability- my school doesn't do it but my schools in America always had ability based division and I feel that I benefited from it. I could feel free to shine as much as I could in English and History, my better subjects, and I don't think I would have survived math if I had to keep up with the better students in my grade. I feel like the japanese students who I teach might venture to get more involved in the class if they didn't have to worry about appearing as a know-it-all or making a mistake. I also have students in lower grades that I think could cope with the higher level classes, due to the japanese practice of attending cram schools. These students have worked hard to get ahead of their grade level, but they can't take advantage of it in class.

I don't know for sure whether ability based classes would help my students, but given their current performance, it couldn't hurt to try. Unfortunately, it would also require a complete restructuring of the school system as it stands, and I don't think thats likely to happen. Japanese JHS students stay with the same class group all of the time, in the same classroom, and the teachers come to them.

Senorita Daniels · Post by **Senorita Daniels** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:20 pm

There have been studies that show remedial classes don't help as much as first thought, because the students don't have to catch up. They can go at their own leisurly pace, and still pass. Maybe you have to find group activities where some of the top students and bottom students have to work together. Then, the ones who learn at a faster pace have the challenge of teaching the ones who learn at a slower pace.

joshua2004 · Post by **joshua2004** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:06 pm

My school segregates students by their English ability. It works very effectively for teaching English and it provides that diversity in the other subject areas.(students are together all day like in elementary school) We have three middle school grades and there are 5 levels/classes in each grade. Classes with higher abilities in English are given more subject area classes in English.

guest of Japan · Post by **guest of Japan** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:10 am

My private high school in Japan separates 1st year students into 2 levels, and 2nd and 3rd year students into three levels. The groupings are adjusted after mid-term and final tests. There are 5 total tests throughout the school year. The classes are taught the same content.

With the first year classes it means that one group is quite enjoyable to teach and the other is a nightmare. The classes are 43 students each. Teaching 43 disinterested students in a room room jam packed with bodies, gym bags and sports gear is no picnic. The role of the teacher is to keep them awake, reasonably quiet and on task. With the higher level group the teacher is free to lighten up a little and some real learning takes place. With Japanese students the dominant group in terms of numbers will dominate the class. If you take 10 great students and put them in a class with 30 difficult students you'll get 35 difficult students and 5 who work as if they are invisible. Conversely, if you put 10 difficult students in with 30 good students you get 35 good students and 5 who try to remain quietly invisible or asleep. They won't be disruptive to the the majority.

With the second and third year students the system works better because the classes are smaller. The top two level typically have about 25 to 30 students, while the lowest level has about 15 to 20. The system would work fantastically if the teachers would have put more forthought into choosing a text. As it is the text is very difficult for the top level students and completely impossible for the low level students. Still, due to the low students numbers at the lowest level greater care can be given to each student and classroom problems are minimized, though not erased.

One high school I worked at in the US had a great inclusion - pull out system. On reason it worked very well is that the special ed. teacher was a man to be taken seriously. He became like a strong-willed father to most of his students. The students took regular classes with the other students for the most part. When they weren't taking a normal class they were in the learning support classroom. The teacher knew everything that the students were doing in their other classes and kept them moving forward. If his students were being disruptive in regular classes the teacher would send them to his classroom. His paternal wrath was something to be feared. Sending students to him was a lot more productive than sending them to the vice-principal. In Japan, you can't send them anywhere.

joshua2004 · Post by **joshua2004** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:20 pm

It is interesting what you said about the discipline structure in your US school.

At my middle school here in Mexico, we have a teacher who is designated the "assessor" for your class. If you have any problems, that teacher is the one to go to. He/she knows the students and their parents.

Above the assessor is another teacher who is the "assessor" for the grade level. There is also a designated "disciplinarian" in the school.

You have no one at your school in Japan?

guest of Japan · Post by **guest of Japan** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:07 pm

In Japan if your really have a problem then you consult the student's homeroom teacher. How successful this is really depends on how good the homeroom teacher is at discipline. Schools also will have an established discipline committee to overly discuss any serious promblems. For them this usually means hair color, skirt lenghth and the ultimate sin - smoking.

The real problem with the Japanese system is that nothing happens real time and there are no repercussions. Students cannot legally be removed from the class because this is seen as denying them an equal education. Participation in sports club will never be used as a leverage point. Expulsion may occur if the student is violent to another student or a teacher, but this is very school dependent. In a high school I used to work at I pulled a 17 year old boy off a 16 year old girl in front of the #2 guy in the school. He was kicking her as she lie on the floor screaming. There was no punishment at all. In my current school that would warrant an expulsion. In the US, there would be police.