Punishment: should it be in English?

jenviolin · Post by **jenviolin** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:09 pm

Survey question: If (as an EFL/ESL teacher) you give extra writing as punishment to a student/pupil, should the writing be in English or not?

I have two friends who are in strong disagreement about this. The first says that you should always give the punishment writing in English, so at least they're learning something! If you make the student write "I will not shoot spitballs in class" 100 times in English, he or she will certainly remember the spelling, the verb, and the word order.

The other believes that teachers must never give students a reason to dislike English, no matter how they misbehave. Giving English writing as a punishment will only breed contempt and aversion to the language.

What do YOU think? I'd love to hear some more opinions and examples!

dduck · Post by **dduck** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:34 pm

I think this is about your relationship with the student. I think it's more important that the student understands and agrees that their behaviour is unacceptable. Then I'd probably ask the student what kind of punishment (s)he thought appropriate.

I wouldn't give a student lines. There's not enough thinking involved with that kind of punishment. I'd rather they wrote a short apology, or ask them to write about what happened and why they were punished?

Everything, in my opinion, in school should be about making the students think independently and responsibly.
Iain

jenviolin · Post by **jenviolin** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:28 pm

...and if you asked them to write an apology, or write about why they were punished, would you ask them to write in English? why or why not?
Thanks!

dduck · Post by **dduck** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:19 pm

I'd ask the student.

Iain

serendipity · Post by **serendipity** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:12 pm

It depends on the student's ability to express herself/himself.

Sometimes it's very instructive to read what had actually been bugging them, or how they justify their actions to you. It can be a way of getting aggressions off their chest, and for some, it's actually easier to do this in English than in their native tongue, simply because English isn't as laden with emotional connotations as their native tongue might be.

I don't know where you're at, but here I've come to discover that quite a number of young people journal in English rather than in German, since it's a language that they're generally better at than their parents.

Also, the minute when there's been a conflict, they feel passionately about something, and passionate feeling always sparks good writing.

Yup, I guess I would have the students write an explanation of their behaviour /apology in English. If it's lucid, you can always praise them and thus show that you're no longer angry with them, and that's always a good way to resolve things.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:34 pm

Here is how I handle discipline in my class. I look for the students that make noise, act up ect. Then I select those students to answer questions, activities or whatever the lesson required. Also I use a technique used in Mexico that I liked. Anyone caught using their native tongue I bring up to the front of the class where they have to dance like their favourite rock/movie star. I find the class is very helpful in pointing out people speaking Chinese.

In all my classes now, I have very few troublemakers, they have figured out that if they do not want to be picked they behave!

serendipity · Post by **serendipity** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:20 pm

Well, unfortunately there are those who actually *love* to be picked on - the ones that crave attention of any kind, and be it that they are singled out to perform in front of the class....

I would hate to see *answering questions* and *taking part in class activities* turned into punitive measures - I think that would be counterproductive in the long run. I definitely would not want it associated with more embarrassment than there already is, especially if the student in question is disruptive.

I usually use the opposite approach in these cases - call for a time-out and have them stand facing the wall, not allowing them to participate in class discussion in any way, and not allowing others to approach them.

Maybe there's a cultural component to what they perceive as particularly unpleasant - and to how teachers deal with this issue.

Nic · Post by **Nic** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:58 pm

Serendipity and Morgoth,

Both your ideas for punishing students are reasonable, and I would like to try them - or indeed anything. But in my classes (13-15 year old Chinese students), asking a student to come to the front of the class, or to go to the back, meets with a "no" and the student simply will not move. They know they are about to be punished in some way, but if they don't move, what can I do? This always happens because they know that I will not stand there and wait for them, and I am left feeling stupid and utterly out of control of my class.

Why do your students stand up when they know they are about to be punished/humiliated in some way?

Nic

Sally Olsen · Post by **Sally Olsen** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:29 pm

I have no idea why they stand up! I will be interested to hear. I keep telling my students that they are there to learn English and not become spitball champion of the school or in my case finger wrestling champion. If they are misbehaving verbally but doing it in English, then I use their sentences on the board to extend what I am talking about (teaching them substitutes for words that might offend older people I say). I always carry a letter with me, already typed with an explanation of why I have come to their class and to their country to teach. I ask them to help me because I am a visitor and appeal to their better natures. If a student is carrying on too much I slip them this letter with their name at the top. If it continues I stop them on the way to class for a chat and say that I really need them to co-operate in class and try to find out what is going on. If it continues, and it does sometimes, I stop the class and have an election. I say that the student seems to want to be the teacher of the class and I list the things that he/she is teaching them. Often this kind of student is happy for the attention and will add to the list including things like no homework and time off to go out of the class and top marks for everyone. I list what I will do and take a private vote. As it is all done in humourous tones, I win the election. If it still continues, I take the student to the counsellor or principal and have it out and ask for the student to be transfered or to study privately in the counsellor's office. They hate being away from their friends for long. I had to have the parents in for one student and she was excluded from the class but I think this is a defeat and was sorry to have it end that way. The parents were as belligerant as the student so there was no backing down. Working with teenagers is a constant balancing act as they want direction but don't. You have to walk a fine and humourous line.

serendipity · Post by **serendipity** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:18 pm

Why do your students stand up when they know they are about to be punished/humiliated in some way?

Because they don't regard attention as humiliation or punisment, on the contrary, it's a chance to them to present themselves to the class, a chance to get the full attention of the teacher, something that they usually have to share with thirty others.

Being ignored is much worse to them, so what I've taken to lately is to have them stand facing the wall, not being allowed to participate in any way, not allowing others to address them.

To get them to do what I want, I use the "broken-record technique" - "Into the corner you go, Marvin, facing the wall. Into the corner you go, Marvin, facing the wall. Into the corner you go, Marvin, facing the wall. Facing the wall. Facing the wall. Yep, that's right, and you'll stay there until I tell you to come out again. No, not before. Only when I tell you to come out again." It annoys the others, of course, and they usually voice their support for me in pretty uninhibited terms.

It's embarrassing to have to resort to these sort of techniques, but there seems to be no way around it. I sometimes have the impression that I teach quite a number of students who've got all sorts of social deficits and disorders, even though I'm not a therapist. I can't *heal* them, all I can do is to make sure that the lessons progress in a relatively orderly fashion, and that learning takes place.

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Punishment: should it be in English?

Punishment: should it be in English?

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