Discussion class, HEEEELP!

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

I teach between 4 and 7 classes a day, five days a week, in Japan. My most challenging class is a once-a-week "discussion class."
It consists of between 4 and 6 women, depending on attendance, age 24-60. They are supposed to be high level on paper, Eiken Step 2 or higher, but their performance is pretty weak in a group discussion setting. The focus of the class is not grammar or vocabulary, however, it is discussion.
When the class started out, I would dig through the local English newspapers for an article which we would "discuss" the following week. It was hit or miss; sometimes the article I chose would spark a healthy discussion, and sometimes it would be seventy minutes of pulling teeth. As time went on I got a better feel for my students' needs, and as a result my job became harder. When I went article-hunting, I had a heap of criteria to keep in mind. Not too long, not too difficult, first of all. It also had to be something that sparked "discussion." This is where it really gets complicated. Most of what shows up in the local English newspapers doesn't spark much discussion from this crowd. Merely informative articles are met with mere reception. Articles on world issues are met with blank stares. Articles on local issues are met with seemingly less enthusiasm. Then, in searching for topics that could be examined from a variety of angles, and possibly spark a healthy "discussion," I find myself in the realm of taboo topics. Politics are right out, religion's not far behind. War is no discussion; everyone here is against it. I can't seem to find an inroad into the world of what is appropriate to discuss in Japanese circles. Sure, the local English newspapers have plenty to say about issues relating to Korean nationals, but my boss informed me that no such topic was to be discussed for fear of causing bad feelings.
When she saw how much time I was dedicating every week to finding that magic article or discussion topic, my boss suggested that everybody in the class take turns bringing something in. That lightened my workload, but it increased the hit-or-miss factor. I tacked discussion questions onto the articles in an attempt to give the discussion some focus. All of these remedies have had limited success. I guess I should mention that my school's only computer is my other boss' laptop, and he's always busy on it. I can scour the web in my (precious little) spare time, but I don't have a printer.
One student wants to have an actual debate. I've never mediated a debate before.
In hopes of spicing things up, my boss ordered a copy of The Debatabase Book: A Must-Have Guide for Successful Debate. As it turns out, it has nothing for the teacher of a debate class. It's full of juicy debate topics, but most of them are useless in Japan. They range from topics that are completely irrelevant to everyday Japanese people, like "The Electoral College, Abolition of," and "Monarchy, abolition of," to topics that are off limits like "Nuclear Testing," to topics that are non-debates in Japan, like "School Uniforms." On top of that, the language is over their heads.
This class is a nightmare on so many levels. Anyone who has worked in Japan knows that having a group discussion here is a Sisyphean struggle. Nobody wants to disagree, nobody wants to make eye contact with their fellow students. I usually get a series of brief, individual speeches on the topic, directed at me. It's like everybody gets their turn to say something to the teacher, and then the topic has been disposed of. Even when a student picks up another student's ball, they don't throw it back to the fellow student, they throw it to me. If a student is actually brave enough to disagree with her fellow students, her opinion is politely accepted, and that's that. In fact, opposing opinions are even less likely to produce a discussion, and more likely to cause a topic to be dropped. ARGH!
To top it all off, I have a problem student who will seize any opportunity to steer the "discussion" towards another endless account of her personal problems, and will keep going as if no one but she and I are in the room until I find a way to politely but firmly interject and take the floor away from her because none of her fellow classmates are going to do it. She's the only one who talks freely!
I am running out of ideas. Every week is a struggle to pull something together. After a year of this, I feel like telling my boss that this class is just broken and should be done away with, but I thought I'd appeal to outside parties first.
I'm really sorry to do that. If anyone's still reading, if anyone has had similar experiences, if anyone has had any success with this kind of thing, I beg you, I throw myself down before you, anything, anything at all!

[Lorikeet]

I don't know if this will help or not, but here are two sites with news stories adapted for ESL students. Some of them are not current, but you may be able to find some topics of interest:

http://www.literacynet.org/cnnsf/archives.html
http://www.cdlponline.org/

[Jane W]

This is hard, all right. It's always difficult to keep the ones with better English and more outgoing personalities from dominating the talk. When I want students to talk to each other, I get them working in pairs or circulating with some questions that they have to ask everyone. Then we reconvene to "discuss" what they talked about; this can turn into individual speeches, but at least up until then they've been talking with each other. Sometimes, depending who's there, we can manage to have a real group discussion. Hit or miss, as you say.

Would it be better if you tried discussing less serious news articles? My site has new articles every day, and at least one is usually on the lighter side. Here's one about a man in Japan who saved old magazines until his floor collapsed:

http://eslfreepress.typepad.com/the_esl ... apers.html

You can find others at my URL, below. Good luck.

[fluffyhamster]

Hi again Mr&MrsJQS! From the sounds of it, the class dynamics and personalities are shot, so you may well need to start pushing your boss to break the class up and reamalgamate the people into more cohesive units/classes somehow (I don't think your boss will totally disband it and get rid of the students for good, that would be bad business, even if it would be a dream come true for you).

Surely there are other teachers/schedules there who could take over or swop with you, to give you a break? (I once worked in a school where I seemed, upon reflection, to have the lion's share of the problem classes for at least a term at a time, and they didn't switch anyone's schedules around much in the second term. I don't think anyone else wanted to teach those classes (a second time!)). You make it sound like your school consists of only you and your boss.

I had a quick look at the website that Lori mentioned, but a lot of the stories seem to be quite heavy topics, with an American slant (perhaps not unappealing to Japanese learners). Some might work, though, especially if they have been well-adapted for ESL student levels and needs (again, I haven't really checked beyond scanning the stories by title). Generally I think Jane W has got it right when she says you should perhaps forget the serious topics, and the one she has mentioned as an example seems a good length, level, an could well provide a nice bridge between news and personal anecdote (don't feel you always need to prompt, if they don't spontaneously start telling you about a pain-in-the-ass neighbour I guess that means either they don't have any, or wouldn't tell you, a foreigner, about it, especially in the context of an English classroom).

I found this sort of book a good source of ideas (some were a bit too wierd or racy, though):
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv1- ... ng+chicken

I didn't realize until now that Reuters had an "Oddly enough" webpage, but wonders never cease!
http://www.reuters.com/newsChannel.jhtm ... EnoughNews

If all else fails, I found a "Have I Got News for You" (British Comedy "game"/topical chat show) kind of approach worked very well:

-selecting headlines that will be potentially amusing, depending on the sort of word that is blanked out and then supplied by the contestants
-selecting pictures that the students have to supply the stories for
-answering potentially very "open" questions e.g. 'A couple heard their ceiling squeaking and went to get police. While the police were on their way, the floor of the upstairs apartment fell through. No one was hurt.' WHY DID THE FLOOR COLLAPSE? (Shoddy Japanese construction standards and/or undetected earthquake damage; huge number of illegal Chinese students-turned-crack-addicted-criminals dwelling upstairs/hiding from the visa authorities; mammoth orgies - judging from all the boinging bedspring sounds and groaning emanating from upstairs every night for years on end etc).

OK I know students will never ever come up with something like that last one but that's no reason to stop giving them the chance to "surprise" us. As for the Chinese "students"*, I'm not saying do too much of this, but some "button-pushing" could make for interesting chat/debate/argument/screaming/incidents (international?): 'Chinese students, a lot/quite a few/some of them overstay their visas, don't they.' However, this is being much more direct than the "effigy" strategy that Michael Lewis made me aware of, and you could create totally the wrong impression with your students if you seem to be saying something yourself, directly, that you do not actually hold dear at all (they could misunderstand or be offended even if you make it obvious you are being ironic, that is, if you don't make it clear that it is "other people" who think "this or that" and/or they catch on that you are implying that they think in a certain way ):
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 3398#13398

DK: So, Harry, what do you do?
JN: I'm one of the owners of a record company, among other things.
DK: Really? Which record company?
JN: Drive-By Records.
DK: Drive-By records? (Begins laughing) Is that a joke? I mean, what is that?
JN: It's a hip-hop label.
DK: Hip-hop? Oh, rap. Right, right. Well, that's, er, interesting.
JN: Let me see if I get where you're headed here...
DK: I'm sorry, but look, I hate rap, I really do. It's just sort of crude and violent for my taste, not to mention just a tad misogynistic.
JN: Hey, some people see rap as poetry.
DK: Yeah, but come on, how many words can you rhyme with 'b*tch'? (Walks off)
Daughter: How are we doin'?
JN: I should've left when she tried to arrest me.

Something's Gotta Give in a classroom, maybe.

Actually how people use words and therefore view things is very interesting, and one way to learn what words mean to people as they use and "understand" them, rather than just from the dictionary definitions. For example, Nicholson's use of 'poetry' and Keaton's of 'misogynistic' there, or people calling Ken Livingstone 'racist':
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,3 ... 69,00.html

(Note that Nicholson doesn't commit himself to rap being poetry (although we might imagine he has done so): if he and Keaton had gotten into an involved discussion he would always have had the option of modifying his claim of 'poetry').

My own use of 'people calling'** there is subtly different to a "genuine" effigy strategy (I don't actually know/haven't quite been able to decide if he is nor not, I am just saying that others seem to have done so already).

Lastly:

*Found this interesting story when I was trying to explain what 'so-called' meant to a student:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/01/iraq.hostage/

**Non-finite form, incidentally: ??People now call...; ?People called - too "past" to be topical news, or rather, progressive forms are often used to introduce topics into discussion when they aren't expected. 'I read a (whole?) book last night' vs 'I was reading (title of book) last night, and....'. I recall Michael McCarthy remarking on something like this in his Spoken Language and Applied Linguistics.

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

Wow! Only six hours later and already some fresh ideas. I'm grateful for everyone's input. I don't know why I haven't been using more offbeat topics. I tried one from Kathmandu about ten months ago, "Man Marries Dog for Good Luck, Dies." I remember it getting a limited response, but the classroom dynamic was completely different back then, with different students.
I am the only foreign teacher at my school. It's a very small operation, but I'm happy to be working here nonetheless, because the people running it really care about the students.
I've already hit some of the links provided, and they've given me some ideas. Thank you thank you thank you. If anyone else wants to jump in on this, PLEASE do.
I remember reading about breaking the class into groups of three and circulating among them on another thread. The logic was that such an approach was more like a natural conversation. while that makes perfect sense to me, this class is too small (I know I said 4-6, but right now it's 4). Furthermore, this being Japan, the classroom is too small for any of us to do much moving around.
I've been toying with the idea of actually assigning opinions to the students in an effort to spark some actual exchanges of contrasting ideas. It may be artificial, but hopefully the artifice will allow the students to be more confrontational with each other, as it might make the exchange less personal. Furthermore it will force them to stretch their minds a little to accomodate unfamiliar opinions. I just need a healthy debate topic to try it on. Does anybody know of magic topics specific to Japan?
And does anybody know how to change the cursor from "delete" to "insert?"

[fluffyhamster]

I've been toying with the idea of actually assigning opinions to the students in an effort to spark some actual exchanges of contrasting ideas. It may be artificial, but hopefully the artifice will allow the students to be more confrontational with each other, as it might make the exchange less personal. Furthermore it will force them to stretch their minds a little to accomodate unfamiliar opinions. I just need a healthy debate topic to try it on. Does anybody know of magic topics specific to Japan?

Artificial, yes, but I am never opposed to artifice when students can SEE the FUN involved in the artifice (versus subtly or not so subtly UNNATURAL classrooms, with hardly an ounce of natural language to be seen or encouraged beyond whatever natural language occurs in a TEXT). Hopefully the students you have will see the method's advantages and go for it. One suggestion: maybe you should let them offer/select/barter for/swop the roles among themselves, rather than assigning them directly yourself, the first time you try this. (Obviously, if the "auction" process creates a snag, then assign directly on second and subsequent occassions).

[Sally Olsen]

I don't know whether you are a man or woman and I suppose that is very sexist thing to ask but with women in Japan, it seemed to me that they were very interested in particular topics and got quite excited about them and could talk for hours. Have you ever sat in a coffee shop and heard them talking away? They have such fun. If you could establish such an atmosphere in the class it would go a long way to making things more comfortable. It depends of course on the ladies in your group and what interests they have and after a year you must know a little bit. It seems to me that I might capitalize on the lady with problems and bring in advice columns of the Ann Landers sort. There are always a lot of opinions of what people should do about those sorts of things. Don't take it lightly that she shares these because often they can't share them anywhere else. You can turn them to the lighter side though and add and embelish. Sorry my time is up but good luck and I hope you enjoy them.

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

Wow! That is an eye-opener Sally Olsen: using Ann Landers-type topics to capitalize on the talkative student! Advice columns, OF COURSE! BRILLIANT idea!!! Ask them what advice they would give! Get them to criticize the columnist's advice! I love it! I could KISS you! (I'm a man, by the way)
I don't take this woman lightly. She has real problems. She's not the first student I've had who has come to English class to get what she really should be getting from a counselor. I'm a good listener, and if she wants to vent on me in a private lesson, that's fine. But in a group lesson I find it inappropriate at best, selfish and rude at worst for a student to monopolize the class' time to work out personal problems. I don't think it's fair to the other students. I've been so wrapped up in that way of thinking, though, that I'd never thought of trying to use the situation to an advantage. Of course, I need to be careful not to get carried away with the idea and forget that this is a real person with real problems, not to be insensitively reduced to a piece of teaching material. But I understand you weren't advocating that. I don't know what Japanese ladies chat about in the tea rooms; I wish I did. Do you?
fluffyhamster I like your idea of the auction/barter. It'll have to wait til next week, though; I had the class tonight and did my first round of assigning opinions, on the completely not-related-to-Japan topic of drug-testing in schools. I asked everyone if they were "pro" or "con" and then assigned them the opposite position. A blunt approach, I know, but desperate times call for desperate measures. We'll see what happens.
My girlfriend just informed me that a ruling was passed down today in a lawsuit over some sexist remarks from Tokyo governor Ishihara. He said that the worst thing about Japan were the "babaa" (derogatory slur for old ladies) because they couldn't reproduce anymore, so their purpose in life was finished. A group of Tokyo women sued him for an apology and millions in damages. Today's ruling went against the women. I think I can get a class discussion out of that, don't you?
Huge heaps of thanks with your favorite toppings to all. Any more ideas, keep 'em coming, I beg of you. I'll do my best to hold up my end and reciprocate wherever I feel I can be of use.

[Sally Olsen]

Well from my limited understanding of Japanese and the difficulties of listening in on conversations without appearing that you are, I think the topics were mainly about husbands, boyfriends and lovers and how they made use of mistresses at work and were encouraged to do that by the company. If they had children they would talk endlessly about which school was the best and what they could do to encourage their children to qualify for those schools. If their children were in school they would talk about teachers and which were the best or how to encourage their children to please them. They talked about the best after school schools and programs on TV that would help their children with their school subjects and computer programs that would encourage their children to study. They also talked about the best programs for Tae Kwon Do, caligraphy, ballet, voice, etc and what else was availabe for their children to encourage their development. They talked about how to invest their money as wives are usually completely in charge of the household finances and of course, housing was a big investment as well as saving for the school education. Planning vacations was usually their job as well and cheap vacations were necessary after all those other expences. Fashion and make up were hot topics as fashions change tremendously there. Movie stars and celebreties were also interesting to some of the younger ones. I found Hello Kitty was enormously interesting even to the 20 + year olds and some had their houses decorated from top to bottom with Hello Kitty products but that might have changed in the last four or five years. Cooking and doing something new with an favourite vegetable or meat was always a top priority. Flower arranging was always a bit hit as was quilting and caligraphy. Several women wrote poems in my class and shared these, translating for me. I am not sure some of the other topics would come out with a man teacher but you never know. You might find these topics lacking in depth for a "debate" but behind everything that people say, there is the politics and they think about these things constantly. I personally felt flattered that they wanted to know what women did in other countries in the same situations, not that it was better but just different. My experiences also gave them some insight into their situations as they could see it through my eyes. I talked a lot about the fashion industry and how it worked, holidays and their meaning for me and listened to the meaning they placed on their holidays and we compared ideas about coping with death, marriage, new babies, schooling, religion and politics but through the lens of their everyday situations. We did talk about the "bomb" but through the stories of their parents and how they coped and are coping still. Powerful stuff to my mind.

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

Amen to that. A very sincere "Thank you," Sally. You've given me a window into a world I've never seen before, though it has been under my nose all along.

[fluffyhamster]

How's this for an offbeat topic?
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/ame ... 336778.ece

[Superhal]

I did the same thing. It was so time consuming, I took a month off from that class. When I returned, I tried a new tactic. First, I listed the 12-15 topics that I knew would start good discussions, and then staggered them so that they wouldn't get the same topic in 3 week rotations. Then, I would find different aspects of the topic to bring to class.

For example, sexuality is always a big winner. So:
1. Dating
2. Marriage
3. Finding the perfect mate
4. Beauty pageants
5. Transexuals
6. Homosexuality
etc.

But, I would always use input that was current. So, I would scan the news and find an article related to one of these topics, and bring it in. For some of my students, who were in my class for 6+ months, I had to use fine distinctions between topics so that they wouldn't be talking about the same thing again. This is tricky and took some guesswork on my part.

Then, I would use this criteria to make discussion questions:
The first question or two would always be a comprehension question about the article.
The next question would be related to the student's personal experience (this question would often repeat for similar topics because the students would always change with rolling admission.)
The third question would take it to the abstract level with "what would you do if..." or "if you were this person, what would you do?" etc.

So, the lesson plan was remarkably easy:
1. go over the reading (30 mins)
2. go through the questions (20 minutes)
Voila.

If I had a small class, I would use more questions, if it was a large class, fewer questions, but never less than 3 or 4.

If I had a 90 minute class, I would bring in 2 articles.

[Rania]

I would most definitely agree with what Sally says. After many years of teaching conversation classes I have learned
(a) not to choose topics simply on the basis of how interesting I find them
(b) not to expect a group of strangers to get into a heated debate about a controversial topic (I'm in Germany and many Germans don't like giving their private, personal opinions to a bunch of unknown people in order to get a debate going. In some cultures people don't argue for fun, debating is serious, involves losing face and putting down another person's opinion.)
(c) Don't hand out a piece of paper to read and ask them what their opinions on it are. Most people, even natives, would have no opinions - certainly not straight away, they would have to think about it!

Of course, there are fantastic classes that get on well together and can discuss topics good-humouredly for hours on end but in the case of a class like yours (and I've lots of the, believe me) I would work with tasks - have them complete a task, agree on an outcome.

For example:
choosing a candidate for a job. It could be, e.g. an English teacher for their children's private lessons. The candidates could be a well-qualified but scholarly older man, a young Japanese woman who spent 6 months in the US, a young British woman who is married to a Japanese but has no training and can't speak the language, a German guy who is a trained teacher of English but it isn't his native language etc. Give them little biographies, with a couple of problematic elements thrown in (ie one candidate fired from previous job because s/he argued with boss. About what? Why?) Have them discuss and decide together - you stay out of it. When they give you their chosen candidate, they can also choose a person they would personally have seen in second place. This could lead on to a discussion about e.g. the qualities of a good/bad teacher (thinking back to their own school days) or changes they would make in the school system in their country.

Choosing a destination: tell them that the group has won a prize to attend an English course. Like the above, give them pics (cut from travel mags or taken from the internet) and give them the choice of e.g.:
a two week course in Dublin city (expensive city but great nightlife, nice shopping)
a two week course in a small rural town in Wales/American midwest (with opportunities to go - I don't know - pony riding, hill-trekking)
a two week course in South Africa, in a bigger city.
When they have decided on a destination - they could actually even do it in pairs - have them write the other pair a postcard from their 'destination.'

General holidays and food are hot topics in every culture: give them a list of aspects (see the Reward Resource Pack series for this) to a holiday eg
relaxing on the beach/big city/countryside/a full schedule/ doing nothing every day/museums and culture/discos and nightclubs etc. and have them divide it into two columns: MY DREAM HOLIDAY and MY NIGHTMARE HOLIDAY. Compare with a partner - is there anyone in the group with similar interests? If you went on holiday together, where would you go? etc.

Food:
What is the most exotic thing you have ever eaten?
Do you know any British/American dishes?
If I came to your house, what would you prepare?
Have you ever tried ... horse/snake/shark/snails etc.? Would you? Why /not?
What's a speciality of your area? How is it made?
Look at these pics of American dishes - which one would you like to try? Is there something similar here?
Do you eat fastfood? Do your children? How have eating habits changed in your country inthe last 20-50 years? What is better nowadays? What is worse?

And so on.


As Sally said, these topics may seem 'banal' but some of the most interesting and deep conversations I have had with groups in class have stemmed from such activities: what makes a good teacher? what were our experiences at school? what is the point or goal of education? how can it be achieved? Or: what sort of holiday do I like? Why? How do I relax and what do I consider relaxation? What is work for me and what is fun? Can you combine both? Do we live to work, or work to live? Is this the way it should be? Has it always been this way or has it changed - for the better or for the worse? And these have sometimes lead to really interesting philosophical chats.

Good luck, in any case, I really sympathise and empathise with you!
Rania