Present Perfect-American/British

[sivvy]

Hi All,

I have noticed with my students that those who have learnt American English have no concept of the PP! This is a problem, as others in my class (those who have learnt British English) do know the PP and have been exposed to it previously.

Do you have any tips to control this situation in the classroom? And has anyone had the same circumstance??

Cheers

[Rania]

Ooooh!
I'm Irish so our usage of the PP sways somewhere in the middle, between AmE and BrE. However, I have six grammar classes a week and I INSIST on students learning to use the PP and PP-continuous properly - when their English is better and when they have been exposed to whatever variation they choose, they can decide to use it or not. You see, the problem is, for German speakers it's difficult to use the Present Perfect and it's difficult for teachers to know if they are simply choosing not to use it (AmE) or, by not using it, using the Simple Past incorrectly (BrE). Sometimes those who have been exposed to AmE also use it incorrectly because they think "it sounds better" in the Simple Past (which, obviously, it does to German ears but it isn't AmE, just wrong E!)
However, in any case, I explain this to my class: I make it sound like a bonus, learning to move between the two varieties. I tell them I want to be sure they can use the more difficult variety before simply sticking with the easier one, and most of them have no problem with that.

At the end of the day, in your case it is a little different but I think that if your students want to stay in Australia and possibly work or study there, it might be a benefit to them from the beginning if they learned the form that is most commonly used there. I had an Austrian teacher at school and had to adapt when I came over here to Germany because I wanted to speak the language of the country I was in. It's no big deal, and most people want to sound as authentic as possible in their new environment.

[Lorikeet]

Hi All,

I have noticed with my students that those who have learnt American English have no concept of the PP! This is a problem, as others in my class (those who have learnt British English) do know the PP and have been exposed to it previously.

Do you have any tips to control this situation in the classroom? And has anyone had the same circumstance??

Cheers

You know, I speak American English and oddly enough, I teach the present perfect too. There are just some instances where the present perfect is required in British English, and is optional in American English. In other places, it is required in both. I don't know a more succinct way to say, "I've been here for two years."

[Rania]

That's right, Lorikeet - in this case the students have to use it, of course.

More difficult, though, are things like
"Oh no, I've lost my keys"
and
"Oh no, I lost my keys"
and German speakers who otherwise consistently use BrE will tend towards the easier version (Simple Past) before using the Present Perfect. Which isn't tragic most of the time, but I teach translators-in-training too, so their grammar has to be accurate and appropriate: they HAVE TO know the difference.

In Ireland, however, the Pres Perfect form is slowly disappearing in the above case - certainly in spoken English. I notice a lot of younger people use the Simple Past and say things like "I did it already" or "I just called him." It doesn't sound wrong but I'm a stickler, I'd use the PP.

[Lorikeet]

That's right, Lorikeet - in this case the students have to use it, of course.

More difficult, though, are things like
"Oh no, I've lost my keys"
and
"Oh no, I lost my keys"
and German speakers who otherwise consistently use BrE will tend towards the easier version (Simple Past) before using the Present Perfect. Which isn't tragic most of the time, but I teach translators-in-training too, so their grammar has to be accurate and appropriate: they HAVE TO know the difference.

In Ireland, however, the Pres Perfect form is slowly disappearing in the above case - certainly in spoken English. I notice a lot of younger people use the Simple Past and say things like "I did it already" or "I just called him." It doesn't sound wrong but I'm a stickler, I'd use the PP.

Yes, it looks like the American view is moving into Ireland then.

[Rania]

"Yes, it looks like the American view is moving into Ireland then."

Gasp! We're being infiltrated, haha!
It's not bad - the language is developing, that's all. It's natural that over time more complex structures fade out and are replaced by the easier version. I mean, think of thou/you, as a basic example.

Where I DO have a bone to pick with American English is in its dumbification of our youth (:lol: well, let's be honest, they seemed pretty open to dumbification) because I am increasingly hearing conversations like this on the bus/train/tram/street, delivered in a middle-class Irish accent with a nasal American twang:
"And Oi was loike, no way, roysh! Do NOT go in there, loike! And she was, loike, shaddup! I mean, loike, todally, shaddup!"
and so on. I blame low-grade Hollywood sitcoms for this trend, as well as for the tendency to raise your voice at the end of every sentence? So everything sounds like a question? You know?

In other words, roll on Past Simple. You are the lesser of many evils!

[Lorikeet]

Ugh. I can't stand all the things you mentioned either.

[rusmeister]

I'd just like to say, as an American, that American English is no less capable of correctness and erudition than British, Australian or any other variant of English.
The fact that a lot of Americans use poor English is more reflective of the poor education they receive at the hands of public schools (if I can get away with using such an awful metaphor here).
When I watch 'Bambi' with my kids I remember that we once had high standards for public expression.