LARGE classes
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
-
lagerlout2005
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:08 am
LARGE classes
I am going to teach high school classes of 60 soon. In China. I know this has been discussed but I dont know how to archive this Particular forum, No textbook will be used. Anybody done this or have ideas on what to do with such an absurdly big class. General intro and chat will get me through a class or 2 but then they will expect magic. I am searching all boards I can find.. Please.....
60 students is quite common here, and in my opinion you should try to get the upper hand from the start. Which is difficult enough.
First, get your bearings! Don't allow them to run the show! If you are a newbie you will run into the phenomenon called "we don't know whether the cowboz leads the herd of cows or the cows lead the cowboy". You get the idea.
Establish what is their lowest common denominator.
IO would be surprised if it isn't LISTENING COMPREHENSION.
If that's the case, you must keep all of them busy as much as possible. I feel dictations are one of the most helpful methods. That's when they have to listen, and that's when comparing their various spellings will make it clear that they do not understand English at all. You may read aloud 'although the man had paid..." , and some of them will write "...also many peep..."!
They only understand a word at a time, which is so terribly difficult for you as they will ask stupid questions such as "did you say 'difference' or 'different'?" Which points out one fallacy of their approach: Their grammar grasp is utterly useless.
I for one wish you good luck!
Roger, in Southern China
First, get your bearings! Don't allow them to run the show! If you are a newbie you will run into the phenomenon called "we don't know whether the cowboz leads the herd of cows or the cows lead the cowboy". You get the idea.
Establish what is their lowest common denominator.
IO would be surprised if it isn't LISTENING COMPREHENSION.
If that's the case, you must keep all of them busy as much as possible. I feel dictations are one of the most helpful methods. That's when they have to listen, and that's when comparing their various spellings will make it clear that they do not understand English at all. You may read aloud 'although the man had paid..." , and some of them will write "...also many peep..."!
They only understand a word at a time, which is so terribly difficult for you as they will ask stupid questions such as "did you say 'difference' or 'different'?" Which points out one fallacy of their approach: Their grammar grasp is utterly useless.
I for one wish you good luck!
Roger, in Southern China
-
lagerlout2005
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:08 am
To Glenski---I have heard of Ur and would love to see these books but the chance of getting them in China is nil. I think she invented the "find someone who" activity and others.
Roger---What you are saying is sound but they are never happy it seems. If I do dictation they will say a Chinese teacher could do that. They want it sort of "conversational" but that would mean about 15 seconds with each student. First class was sort of Q and A and I think maybe send them into groups whether they like it or not. Korea for all its faults have a good idea limiting esl class sizes to 10...Thanks for the help---Remember a good thread on here about classes of 100 but that was the old board.
Roger---What you are saying is sound but they are never happy it seems. If I do dictation they will say a Chinese teacher could do that. They want it sort of "conversational" but that would mean about 15 seconds with each student. First class was sort of Q and A and I think maybe send them into groups whether they like it or not. Korea for all its faults have a good idea limiting esl class sizes to 10...Thanks for the help---Remember a good thread on here about classes of 100 but that was the old board.
Lagerlouts2005:
I can empathise with you, but I can't give youdefinite advice! Every class has its own dynamics, and it is important to take control right from the start!
Their Chinese teachers do some kind of dictation - but that is single words only, not whole sentences! What I do is making them aware of their own limitations, one being that they can't understand a joke or short story in SIMPLIFIED (1800 vocables!) English! Some of my classes have been a great psychological success because of this with students actually expecting this from me, while others have shown great resistance from day one, and so I had to find another way of teaching.
Some people will suggest pair work. I have had to learn this approach, and I do find it does work on occasion. Still, it is not my cup of tea as their ENglish will not be monitored and improvements will not take place. Many lapse into their vernacular. Still, if your charges were adults it could lead to some productifve use of their time, but your students are public school students, and these are quite difficult to lead.
How about organising some playful activities? Have them copp a short story or a passage from a book that you place at a strategic place so everybody has to get up and read it, memorise it and return to jot it down.
YOu can form the class in small groups of 5, one of whose members will be the "secretary", while one or two will be the "messengers", with the remaining ones checking on the spelling.
Don't waste your breath on discussion with them! It is a non-starter! And, while your calculation is right - a few seconds per head during a lesson - it won't work because so many of them stare blankly ahead of them, others look up at you, seemingly amused at being spoken to, then breaking into a half-crazy giggle and mumbling in Chinese "wo ting bu dong. Ta yau shenma?" You get the impression, they are not taking your language seriously! Thus, discussions can't benefit too many! And, they won't listen to each other - most will have their private conversations!
Just keep them busy, and perhaps, some will actually learn!!
I can empathise with you, but I can't give youdefinite advice! Every class has its own dynamics, and it is important to take control right from the start!
Their Chinese teachers do some kind of dictation - but that is single words only, not whole sentences! What I do is making them aware of their own limitations, one being that they can't understand a joke or short story in SIMPLIFIED (1800 vocables!) English! Some of my classes have been a great psychological success because of this with students actually expecting this from me, while others have shown great resistance from day one, and so I had to find another way of teaching.
Some people will suggest pair work. I have had to learn this approach, and I do find it does work on occasion. Still, it is not my cup of tea as their ENglish will not be monitored and improvements will not take place. Many lapse into their vernacular. Still, if your charges were adults it could lead to some productifve use of their time, but your students are public school students, and these are quite difficult to lead.
How about organising some playful activities? Have them copp a short story or a passage from a book that you place at a strategic place so everybody has to get up and read it, memorise it and return to jot it down.
YOu can form the class in small groups of 5, one of whose members will be the "secretary", while one or two will be the "messengers", with the remaining ones checking on the spelling.
Don't waste your breath on discussion with them! It is a non-starter! And, while your calculation is right - a few seconds per head during a lesson - it won't work because so many of them stare blankly ahead of them, others look up at you, seemingly amused at being spoken to, then breaking into a half-crazy giggle and mumbling in Chinese "wo ting bu dong. Ta yau shenma?" You get the impression, they are not taking your language seriously! Thus, discussions can't benefit too many! And, they won't listen to each other - most will have their private conversations!
Just keep them busy, and perhaps, some will actually learn!!
What's wrong with ordering them through Amazon.com?To Glenski---I have heard of Ur and would love to see these books but the chance of getting them in China is nil. I think she invented the "find someone who" activity and others.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/searc ... 47-3769460
A class of 60 is sort of a large one here, but I know there's even one of 70(We don't like this,either, but that's a miserable fact in our country). I heard in such big classes, teachers tend to favor those who are more active and bold, and "abandon" a small group who never dare to say a word publicly, or have no interest in learning the language at all. And this is esp. true in colleges and universities.
Is it really necessary to do so? I know teachers should always have confidence in their students, but what if ur effort to cheer them up is always in vain?
This is a question from a student in China who's going to be a teacher in a few months' time. Thanks for any reply.
Is it really necessary to do so? I know teachers should always have confidence in their students, but what if ur effort to cheer them up is always in vain?
This is a question from a student in China who's going to be a teacher in a few months' time. Thanks for any reply.
-
italianstallion39
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:00 pm
Spalding Method
I'd recommend the Spalding Method.
Spalding
Found here:The proven research-based method that has helped millions of children for more than forty years. Expanded, updated, and easy to use. Significantly improves student classroom performance. Dramatically increases standardized test scores. For classroom, home, special education, and ESL instruction.
Spalding
Re: Spalding Method
Maybe I'm just in a grouchy mood, but what does the Spalding method (which talks about spelling, reading, and writing) have to do about a large class in China that is going to focus on listening and conversation? Sounds like an advertisement to me.AJ wrote:I'd recommend the Spalding Method.
Found here:The proven research-based method that has helped millions of children for more than forty years. Expanded, updated, and easy to use. Significantly improves student classroom performance. Dramatically increases standardized test scores. For classroom, home, special education, and ESL instruction.
Spalding
Relavance
D Doesn't Stand for Disrespect
The above article points out that student mishavior is related to ineffective teaching methods. If one wants to keep students attention one has to learn the proper methods of teaching.
Unfortunately, the proper teaching methods can no longer be found in the public school system.
Try reading more of Linda's posts, and I'll try to be more clear at what I'm driving at before posting.
The above article points out that student mishavior is related to ineffective teaching methods. If one wants to keep students attention one has to learn the proper methods of teaching.
Unfortunately, the proper teaching methods can no longer be found in the public school system.
Try reading more of Linda's posts, and I'll try to be more clear at what I'm driving at before posting.
AJ,
are we, perhap-s, trying to be aloof, magisterial and a little dictatorial?
I have the distinct impression you ae a Chinese person, at least, you are someone from relatively outside the TEFL field.
Do you know how hard labouring under typical CHinese classroom conditions can be?
There simply is no proven method that fits all sizes, nationalities and circumstances.
But as a long-term China-based TEFLer, I must say China is not even endeavouring to make the plight of its teachers any easier.
Class sizes, for instance, are no discussion topic anywhere here. Apparently, the powers-that-be and even parents feel if one can teach one student one must also succeed with a class of 60, 90 or more!
But these students are ill-prepared for a real-life situation in which their acquired English might be of vital importance: when a native English speaking person gives them instructions, they sit passively, staring at their books, or talk to each other.
Don't tell me this is our fault.
They should learn, first thing, to be a little more interested in the first place. And more polite. When someone is talking, you listen, full stop. You simply don't start your private conversation that's most likely totally unrelated to the subject the teacher is talking about.
I don't agree with Chinese students and parents that making classroom activities MORE INTERESTING is my dut, mine alone. I hold that students must learn to be interested in things that may not necesssarily revolve around their own narrow focus.
Learning a second language to a very large extent means acquiring a second culture. Western culture has niches in which the individual person learns to use their own resources, intellectual, psychological, spiritual and others. We learn individually. Only the truly dedicated and interested can succeed under such circumstances. We all learn to excel at one subject or another, usually at several ones. This is only possible if classrooms are not overcrowded. Crowdedness leads to a lowering of the common denominators. CHinese classrooms also tend to be extremely noisy. How can Chinese study, learn, think, when others are making such a din? Whenever I enter a classroom before 8 a.m., students would be practising speaking aloud (reading aloud) for pronunciation's sake. English, of course. First of all - i deem this activism as totally wasteful - I have never seen such reading aloud anywhere in the world. Yet, the pronunciation of the same students is often incomprehensible. no wonder - how can they correct their own pronunciation errors if they never model it along a native speaker's?
But, and that's the most important here: who can mull things over when all classmates are producing such a noise? This definitely is not conducive to meaningful learning. The result is a mere grazing of the surface of what's supposed to be acquired.
Chinese schools also are curiously unconcedrned about objectives. I have yet to come across a school that defines the goals to be attained in any subject! Not only that - teachers are left to their own devices, and have not option but to learn to get along with their charges lest they complain about the teacher. THus, an English teacher has to be "friends" with his or her students - literally. In not a few cases, the relationship between a teacher and students simply is unhygienic (read "unethical").
I feel our CHinese employers ought to empower us, and rspect our input. We alone can assess Chinese' English proficiency, fluency and competency. In too many cases, our Chinese colleagues give their Chinese English students far too generous grades!
Generally, Chinese treat languages not so much as languages but as yet more academic subjects; they memorise and learn, but they don't really acquire and internalise them. They seldom attain practically relevant English skills. they consider it "knowledge", and in any class they attend, they think they must be given more items to "take home".
Conversation classes, however, ought to be about using what has already been acquired. Not about learning yet more!
are we, perhap-s, trying to be aloof, magisterial and a little dictatorial?
I have the distinct impression you ae a Chinese person, at least, you are someone from relatively outside the TEFL field.
Do you know how hard labouring under typical CHinese classroom conditions can be?
There simply is no proven method that fits all sizes, nationalities and circumstances.
But as a long-term China-based TEFLer, I must say China is not even endeavouring to make the plight of its teachers any easier.
Class sizes, for instance, are no discussion topic anywhere here. Apparently, the powers-that-be and even parents feel if one can teach one student one must also succeed with a class of 60, 90 or more!
But these students are ill-prepared for a real-life situation in which their acquired English might be of vital importance: when a native English speaking person gives them instructions, they sit passively, staring at their books, or talk to each other.
Don't tell me this is our fault.
They should learn, first thing, to be a little more interested in the first place. And more polite. When someone is talking, you listen, full stop. You simply don't start your private conversation that's most likely totally unrelated to the subject the teacher is talking about.
I don't agree with Chinese students and parents that making classroom activities MORE INTERESTING is my dut, mine alone. I hold that students must learn to be interested in things that may not necesssarily revolve around their own narrow focus.
Learning a second language to a very large extent means acquiring a second culture. Western culture has niches in which the individual person learns to use their own resources, intellectual, psychological, spiritual and others. We learn individually. Only the truly dedicated and interested can succeed under such circumstances. We all learn to excel at one subject or another, usually at several ones. This is only possible if classrooms are not overcrowded. Crowdedness leads to a lowering of the common denominators. CHinese classrooms also tend to be extremely noisy. How can Chinese study, learn, think, when others are making such a din? Whenever I enter a classroom before 8 a.m., students would be practising speaking aloud (reading aloud) for pronunciation's sake. English, of course. First of all - i deem this activism as totally wasteful - I have never seen such reading aloud anywhere in the world. Yet, the pronunciation of the same students is often incomprehensible. no wonder - how can they correct their own pronunciation errors if they never model it along a native speaker's?
But, and that's the most important here: who can mull things over when all classmates are producing such a noise? This definitely is not conducive to meaningful learning. The result is a mere grazing of the surface of what's supposed to be acquired.
Chinese schools also are curiously unconcedrned about objectives. I have yet to come across a school that defines the goals to be attained in any subject! Not only that - teachers are left to their own devices, and have not option but to learn to get along with their charges lest they complain about the teacher. THus, an English teacher has to be "friends" with his or her students - literally. In not a few cases, the relationship between a teacher and students simply is unhygienic (read "unethical").
I feel our CHinese employers ought to empower us, and rspect our input. We alone can assess Chinese' English proficiency, fluency and competency. In too many cases, our Chinese colleagues give their Chinese English students far too generous grades!
Generally, Chinese treat languages not so much as languages but as yet more academic subjects; they memorise and learn, but they don't really acquire and internalise them. They seldom attain practically relevant English skills. they consider it "knowledge", and in any class they attend, they think they must be given more items to "take home".
Conversation classes, however, ought to be about using what has already been acquired. Not about learning yet more!
Re: Relavance
You are posting about problems in American public schools involving native English-speaking children. I am not arguing for or against the points you mention. I am simply stating that the threads you are referencing are out of place here, in a thread about teaching large conversation classes in China. I am sure they haven't labeled anyone ADD there.AJ wrote:D Doesn't Stand for Disrespect
The above article points out that student mishavior is related to ineffective teaching methods. If one wants to keep students attention one has to learn the proper methods of teaching.
Unfortunately, the proper teaching methods can no longer be found in the public school system.
Try reading more of Linda's posts, and I'll try to be more clear at what I'm driving at before posting.