I have some advanced students who want to "perfect" their English. They express themselves and understand very well - but their English is marked by some basic errors that we can't seem to fix. These students know the grammar and they ace any exercise I give them. The problems arise when they are speaking quickly and casually. Does anyone have ideas on how to approach such issues with advanced students?
Dan
Fixing little problems in the speech of advanced students
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joshua2004
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Torreon, Mexico
My advance students ask for the same, I believe. I have your solution.
Comprehensible input, mostly through reading, has been shown by research and my own experience to improve pronunciation and syntactical accuracy. When we pronounce a word, we think about how it is spelled and then pronounce it. Your "grammatical" accuracy at the highest level is acquired through extensive reading and input. Reading and other forms of input is really the key. Find materials the students find interesting. I use articles, short stories, the possibilities are endless. Since you are looking to perfect thier grammar, you will want to use grammatically correct input.
So what you are looking for is ways to give them correct models of grammar and pronunciation through intrinsically interesting material. Correction only works for improving accuracy under controlled situations like tests and what not, as has been your experience. For true fluency to develop, vast amounts of input must be taken in. The form of this input is up to your creativity. If you provide this, you will notice measurable improvement within a short period (2-3 weeks) of time. I show this improvement by recording the student reading something then revisit the reading two weeks later and record again and then discuss the differences noted in the recordings with the student.
It is a simple solution for a daunting task.
Here are some examples of input that I have found scouring the internet:
news articles:
odd news from Reuters!
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsChann ... EnoughNews
VOA news Special English Perfect for EFL has audio link for stories!
http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/
I take stories I like and rewrite them so that they are correct and use modern language, Aesop fables for instance.
There are also many short films and documentaries you can find online. I don't have time to give you a link right now, but I might do a search under "documentary quicktime". Script out the documentary, have them first watch the documentary or part and then show the script, and talk about what it was about.
more later, let me know what you think,
Josh
Comprehensible input, mostly through reading, has been shown by research and my own experience to improve pronunciation and syntactical accuracy. When we pronounce a word, we think about how it is spelled and then pronounce it. Your "grammatical" accuracy at the highest level is acquired through extensive reading and input. Reading and other forms of input is really the key. Find materials the students find interesting. I use articles, short stories, the possibilities are endless. Since you are looking to perfect thier grammar, you will want to use grammatically correct input.
So what you are looking for is ways to give them correct models of grammar and pronunciation through intrinsically interesting material. Correction only works for improving accuracy under controlled situations like tests and what not, as has been your experience. For true fluency to develop, vast amounts of input must be taken in. The form of this input is up to your creativity. If you provide this, you will notice measurable improvement within a short period (2-3 weeks) of time. I show this improvement by recording the student reading something then revisit the reading two weeks later and record again and then discuss the differences noted in the recordings with the student.
It is a simple solution for a daunting task.
Here are some examples of input that I have found scouring the internet:
news articles:
odd news from Reuters!
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsChann ... EnoughNews
VOA news Special English Perfect for EFL has audio link for stories!
http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/
I take stories I like and rewrite them so that they are correct and use modern language, Aesop fables for instance.
There are also many short films and documentaries you can find online. I don't have time to give you a link right now, but I might do a search under "documentary quicktime". Script out the documentary, have them first watch the documentary or part and then show the script, and talk about what it was about.
more later, let me know what you think,
Josh
I read what you wrote with great interest. But I am not wholly convinced. I suppose that students who read a great deal WILL improve their English in many areas. But can this work to meet specific goals (such as the proper use of articles)?
I keep track of my students' difficulties and engage in conversations that target these difficulties. But some of the conversations are too contrived, and the progress we make together seems too slow.
I guess it comes down to the fact that I want to promise students that I will help them avoid mistakes in articles (as an example) by the end of a course, and then deliver against that promise.
I keep track of my students' difficulties and engage in conversations that target these difficulties. But some of the conversations are too contrived, and the progress we make together seems too slow.
I guess it comes down to the fact that I want to promise students that I will help them avoid mistakes in articles (as an example) by the end of a course, and then deliver against that promise.
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joshua2004
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Torreon, Mexico
I don't teach with specific grammatical objectives in mind because of the same difficulty. It is ironic that teaching grammar doesn't enable one to use it effectively. This is why many teachers who prep students for TOEFL tests and the like, are criticised by their administrators when the students don't pass. Its not the teachers fault! There is a logical perception that if we teach a specific rule and how to use it, the student, with enough practice, will learn how to use it appropriately whenever or at least in most cases. But this doesn't happen for several reasons.
1. Practicing a rule can often be boring. Boredom leads to less acquisition. Interest is an over-looked critical factor in teaching. If you hear a word, phrase, or understand a sentence with a complex grammatical structure, and if you are absorbed in the context and have an intense interest in listening or reading that message, you might remember that word, phrase or how to read that grammatical complex structure, for the rest of your life from just one exposure!
2. There are times when we are ready to learn a new pattern in a language. It is impossible to test or assess when all of your students are ready to learn many different rules. If someone is not "ready", no matter how much you practice with them, they will ultimately regress to previous patterns of language usage.
3. Many rules have too many expectations or are too limited in their application to be learned by themselves of how to use them effectively. It takes a vast amount of input to see when rules are applied and how.
So you see it is difficult to promise to a student, "you will all be able to use these rules: (list of grammar rules) effectively by the end of this course". What might be a more realistic goal is to say "you will all improve your accuracy with articles by (some large percentage)%". And then show how this is measured by recording the students performing various language tasks, measuring their error rate and then assessing at regular intervals.
The benefit of providing large amounts of input that is interesting and accessible, is that you will be providing the examples of grammatical structures which the student is ready to learn by the sheer volume of material. And it is not curing the disease by killing the patient.
Our students are going to have to know so much vocabulary and grammar in order to be able to function effectively in English, that they must be exposed to lots of this diversity that exists in using a language. I have many students that have taken years of English, but can't function outside the "rules" of the language. They hardly know any vocabulary! The ones that do, are the ones that watch a lot of TV and listen to a lot of music.
Lastly, I want to point out that I do teach a lot of grammar. But it is not the objective of the lesson. Every activity, a student will not understand something like "at the river mouth" since in Spanish, this would be said in reverse " the mouth of the river". When I recognize why they don't understand it, I explain it using rules of grammar and then move on. As we continue with large amounts of listening and reading, many of the same structures appear and once again, misunderstanding. With this repetition, interesting materials, and expression of grammatical rules in various contexts, the students learn English.
I hope I am some help. Writing this reply forced me to think about some things. Even if you are still not convinced, thanks for reading.
Josh
1. Practicing a rule can often be boring. Boredom leads to less acquisition. Interest is an over-looked critical factor in teaching. If you hear a word, phrase, or understand a sentence with a complex grammatical structure, and if you are absorbed in the context and have an intense interest in listening or reading that message, you might remember that word, phrase or how to read that grammatical complex structure, for the rest of your life from just one exposure!
2. There are times when we are ready to learn a new pattern in a language. It is impossible to test or assess when all of your students are ready to learn many different rules. If someone is not "ready", no matter how much you practice with them, they will ultimately regress to previous patterns of language usage.
3. Many rules have too many expectations or are too limited in their application to be learned by themselves of how to use them effectively. It takes a vast amount of input to see when rules are applied and how.
So you see it is difficult to promise to a student, "you will all be able to use these rules: (list of grammar rules) effectively by the end of this course". What might be a more realistic goal is to say "you will all improve your accuracy with articles by (some large percentage)%". And then show how this is measured by recording the students performing various language tasks, measuring their error rate and then assessing at regular intervals.
The benefit of providing large amounts of input that is interesting and accessible, is that you will be providing the examples of grammatical structures which the student is ready to learn by the sheer volume of material. And it is not curing the disease by killing the patient.
Our students are going to have to know so much vocabulary and grammar in order to be able to function effectively in English, that they must be exposed to lots of this diversity that exists in using a language. I have many students that have taken years of English, but can't function outside the "rules" of the language. They hardly know any vocabulary! The ones that do, are the ones that watch a lot of TV and listen to a lot of music.
Lastly, I want to point out that I do teach a lot of grammar. But it is not the objective of the lesson. Every activity, a student will not understand something like "at the river mouth" since in Spanish, this would be said in reverse " the mouth of the river". When I recognize why they don't understand it, I explain it using rules of grammar and then move on. As we continue with large amounts of listening and reading, many of the same structures appear and once again, misunderstanding. With this repetition, interesting materials, and expression of grammatical rules in various contexts, the students learn English.
I hope I am some help. Writing this reply forced me to think about some things. Even if you are still not convinced, thanks for reading.
Josh
Rivers in English
In American English one would say, "at the mouth of the river" over "the river mouth," the latter sounding awkward in English to Americans speaking about embouchures.
Another reason I don't like teaching grammar is that communicating accurately is more important in the areas I teach than precise grammar. I know scientists who are fluent in English yet cannot use articles well. How much time should they devote to this task over doing their research, writing and presenting their results?
Another reason I don't like teaching grammar is that communicating accurately is more important in the areas I teach than precise grammar. I know scientists who are fluent in English yet cannot use articles well. How much time should they devote to this task over doing their research, writing and presenting their results?
Habit adquisition....
Good afternoon all.
As it was mentioned a couple of times as an example on this thread, I'll try to answer the original query using the example of advanced students who have not yet acquired the habit of putting the indefinite article, or even the definite article, in its place in the sentence, happily skipping over that up-beat in the overall rhythm of the utterance.
As often as the Japanese businessman has been told that the article should be there, he will leave it out when speaking, even when reading and seeing it. As he doesn't use it in his own language he suffers an L1 interference. As he tends to not use it in English, he might not even hear it when his teacher uses it. He ought to be drilled into the rhythm and sounds of using the indefinite article.
Although Spanish speakers use articles in L1, they also sometimes pass gleefully over the "a" or the "an" when trying to speak English. Here there is no L1 interference involved, but rather, again, a lack of habit in English that effectively prevents them from hearing that little "a" we stick in the utterance. The Spanish speaker must also be drilled to acquire the habit.
Drilling can indeed be boring, especially if the class is one-on-one. Teachers ought not to be lazy and simply drill: "It's a plane. It's big. It's a big plane." More than fifteen minutes of such a drill will leave both the teacher and the student in a trance state that is sometimes useful but is often confused with boredom on the part of either of the participants. What drill is trying to do is to get the muscles used to a certain chain of articulations so that when the student leaves out his/her "a", he/she feels that something is missing. When the student is corrected by the teacher, thanks to having drilled, no explanation is needed during the "conversation". The sudent will quickly correct him/herself after just a couple of corrections by the teacher. The "a" has already been explained in presenting the objectives of the drill, it need not be explained later when it doesn't appear in the utterance and is corrected.
I've already explained the "It's a plane" exercise/drill/song elsewhere,
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 92&start=0
Do read Larry Latham's comments that follow the description of the exercise, he clearly explains what I feel about drilling and exercise.
I once appologized to a group of adult students for making them do so many boring structural drills and they unanimously (sp) objected, saying that they always had a good time doing the drills, in part because I make them fun and interesting and dynamic, and in part because they admit to feeling that the objectives of each drill are being practiced and sometimes even met.
peace,
revel.
As it was mentioned a couple of times as an example on this thread, I'll try to answer the original query using the example of advanced students who have not yet acquired the habit of putting the indefinite article, or even the definite article, in its place in the sentence, happily skipping over that up-beat in the overall rhythm of the utterance.
As often as the Japanese businessman has been told that the article should be there, he will leave it out when speaking, even when reading and seeing it. As he doesn't use it in his own language he suffers an L1 interference. As he tends to not use it in English, he might not even hear it when his teacher uses it. He ought to be drilled into the rhythm and sounds of using the indefinite article.
Although Spanish speakers use articles in L1, they also sometimes pass gleefully over the "a" or the "an" when trying to speak English. Here there is no L1 interference involved, but rather, again, a lack of habit in English that effectively prevents them from hearing that little "a" we stick in the utterance. The Spanish speaker must also be drilled to acquire the habit.
Drilling can indeed be boring, especially if the class is one-on-one. Teachers ought not to be lazy and simply drill: "It's a plane. It's big. It's a big plane." More than fifteen minutes of such a drill will leave both the teacher and the student in a trance state that is sometimes useful but is often confused with boredom on the part of either of the participants. What drill is trying to do is to get the muscles used to a certain chain of articulations so that when the student leaves out his/her "a", he/she feels that something is missing. When the student is corrected by the teacher, thanks to having drilled, no explanation is needed during the "conversation". The sudent will quickly correct him/herself after just a couple of corrections by the teacher. The "a" has already been explained in presenting the objectives of the drill, it need not be explained later when it doesn't appear in the utterance and is corrected.
I've already explained the "It's a plane" exercise/drill/song elsewhere,
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 92&start=0
Do read Larry Latham's comments that follow the description of the exercise, he clearly explains what I feel about drilling and exercise.
I once appologized to a group of adult students for making them do so many boring structural drills and they unanimously (sp) objected, saying that they always had a good time doing the drills, in part because I make them fun and interesting and dynamic, and in part because they admit to feeling that the objectives of each drill are being practiced and sometimes even met.
peace,
revel.