Hi
I've got a problem- I started teaching a class last week of 8 boys aged 17 to 20. They're studying mechanics and need English as part of their basic course requirements. None of them finished school properly so their general level of education is low, one or two are in "foyers"- foster homes.
It was the first lesson and I have to take them through a year of prep for the exam, which isnt the problem, despite the fact their level is ABYSMAL.
So theyre beginners, which isnt the prob. necessarily.
The problem is discipline. I am a woman, 33 years old, reasonable attractive (this is important I think). My style is fairly relaxed with adults, but I've taught this type of class before and know you have to start strict then loosen up. Which i did, no nonsense, no joking or nice getting to know you games, but a review of some basic verbs, grammar...firm but friendly.
The problem started immediately. Three of the ringleaders at the back started talking about their weekends, their course, tv whatever.
I firmly try to get their attention, but succeed only in getting the attention of the quieter ones, who chat amongst themselves in French (to be expected really, a bit, no drama).
But they will NOT work. I cannot get them to stop talking. The only time I got a reaction was when I had to separate two of the worst guys who had started armwrestling throwing pens at each other, playing (i suspect) porn videos on their mobile phones. Convinced them all to shut up and do grammar, which kept them a LITTLE quieter for a while at the end of the lesson.
My main worry is the unhealthy ambiance. I had requests for how to tranlsate obscenities (madame, how do you tranlate to f*** an English woman), repetitvely asked by the worst guy.
I ask a guy what his question was and one pipes up "He want to know how you make love, Madame". Sneers and sniggers thru the class, some embarrassed looks from the others.
I kept the worst guy back after class and asked for an explanation and gave him a rollicking. His response was to not meet my eyes and smile out the corner of his mouth.
I may have to go to the management soon for some help with an organisational discipline, but this week is the second class and I need to at least try to get a grip on them before resorting to that or it'll never work.
I've never been so close to walking out of a class or yelling, especially given I felt extremely under attack sexual innuendo wise, from a group of young men.
I don't think there'll be a question of physical violence, they're not that stupid, but it did cross my mind that if I provoked or humiliated one the tone would rise...I've had younger boys who think its funny to ask for rude words tranlated but these are basically men and they arent impressed by a telling off. They've lost that respect for a teacher figure, makes no difference to tham at al.
So. I tried to exclude the worst couple from the activites. I spent a lot of time going thru exercises with teh quieter ones, and they responded well, knowing I was their to help and not mock or belittle.
I'm not ready yet to play the game of getting the leader of the pack on my side, since I'm still angry and shocked at the verbal aggression I got from him and his mate.
They're grown men, physically, and I'm at a loss how to deal with this short of screaming at them and kicking them out of class. I've had tough classes before but I have a creepy feeling left over from these young men who stop just short of sexual threats.
If this was an office and we were colleagues they'd be out of their jobs in a second.
Any ideas how to REALLY get them to stop talking and pay attention and just do their class once a week, for god's sake. I dont want us to be best friends, but I just want a calm and normal classroom environment.
Doing speaking activities doesnt work, even on topics like football or cars. Grammar keeps them quiet but you can do only so many Murphy Red exercises in three hours.
HELP!
serious discipline problem, exp. teachers please advise
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
Dead pan sometimes works
I would be inclined to try giving them the answer to their questions about sex in a dead pan voice and full of medical terms. I am a man and maybe it is easier for me but if you can keep a straight face and avoid blushing or giggling then they will see that what they are doing is neither clever nor funny. Once the novelty has worn off you should then be able to get on with your lessons.
Yes- thaks for your idea. Staring them down deadpan might do it.
I've also had another idea which is to seperate the group into three "workshops" - one the multimedia lab doing CDRom work, others in another room completing written/grammar exercises, and others in with me doing spoken practice.
I this way we'll do all the basic elements of the class, but the group dynamic will be changed and hopefully each activity will be done more efficiently, in a smaller group.
I'll have to make it clear I'll be marking each piece of work to give them the motivation to work independently.
Feeling better now I have this potential solution!
I've also had another idea which is to seperate the group into three "workshops" - one the multimedia lab doing CDRom work, others in another room completing written/grammar exercises, and others in with me doing spoken practice.
I this way we'll do all the basic elements of the class, but the group dynamic will be changed and hopefully each activity will be done more efficiently, in a smaller group.
I'll have to make it clear I'll be marking each piece of work to give them the motivation to work independently.
Feeling better now I have this potential solution!
-
joshua2004
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Torreon, Mexico
I would talk to management immediately and find some possible consequences for the students. Some of them obviously have no intention of helping you, help them. I would first communicate to the students your expectations and discuss the problems you have been seeing. If you are insulted by what they are saying (as i would be) I would not stand for it. Violations of these expectations face consequences as mandated from management. Don't lose your cool in class, it will delay the eventual ordered environment you are striving for. When students do something totally outrageous like fighting or something smaller like interrupting other students that are working, relax and ask them to stop. If they don't follow your instructions, take note of what they are doing. Don't write down that they mad you mad or that they were mean to someone, shy away from emotional, inflammatory descriptions. State, matter of fact, what he did. Here is an example:
As I walked into class, I saw Gary pushing another student against the wall. I asked him to stop but he did not. Gary began yelling at the other student about some offense committed by the other student earlier. Gary then took the other student's books and threw them out the window. I asked Gary to go retrieve the books for which he said a few curse words to me and sat down.
Don't state how you feel or how other students "feel" (unless it is integral to describing the situation). Basically, what I am trying to say is don't use inflammatory words (like Gary's curse words) in your report. Be very unemotional, professional and direct.
If the students see that there are consequences for doing what they know is wrong, they will straighten up. When they do, make sure to acknowledge their improvement and the better atmosphere in the classroom.
This documentation will give your problems some support from administration so that THEY have a way of directly addressing the problems. Its difficult when a teacher describes a student that is behaving badly, but can't explain what happened. And I know it is difficult to think about all the crazy stuff that happened in a day, especially a 3 hour class, but try jotting down the facts at the end of the day. And remember the most important thing, keep your cool.
As I walked into class, I saw Gary pushing another student against the wall. I asked him to stop but he did not. Gary began yelling at the other student about some offense committed by the other student earlier. Gary then took the other student's books and threw them out the window. I asked Gary to go retrieve the books for which he said a few curse words to me and sat down.
Don't state how you feel or how other students "feel" (unless it is integral to describing the situation). Basically, what I am trying to say is don't use inflammatory words (like Gary's curse words) in your report. Be very unemotional, professional and direct.
If the students see that there are consequences for doing what they know is wrong, they will straighten up. When they do, make sure to acknowledge their improvement and the better atmosphere in the classroom.
This documentation will give your problems some support from administration so that THEY have a way of directly addressing the problems. Its difficult when a teacher describes a student that is behaving badly, but can't explain what happened. And I know it is difficult to think about all the crazy stuff that happened in a day, especially a 3 hour class, but try jotting down the facts at the end of the day. And remember the most important thing, keep your cool.
-
Sally Olsen
- Posts: 1322
- Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:24 pm
- Location: Canada,France, Brazil, Japan, Mongolia, Greenland, Canada, Mongolia, Ethiopia next
Great advice. You might want to watch the movie with Michelle Pfeiffer as a teacher in a similar class. This is an age old problem and there are so many old movies on it. In the end, the teachers won over the students by caring about them as individuals and challenging them to live up to their potential and beyond. I am glad that you are upset about the behaviour and it seems that you are aware of your rights. You are standing on the shoulders of many women who stood up for their rights and are still doing it many places. It is one small area but everyone who does this contributes to the goal of equality, respect and a pleasant workplace.
If you were somehow able to look at this young man's life as a whole, you might see that he treats all women like this and might even do well in his eyes with this behaviour. There are some women who like the "bad" student. I would be extremely careful in keeping him back. He might have told everyone that you wanted to see him privately because you liked him. Make sure the door is open when you interview him privately or take him to a more public place. He might even believe that you are dropping him hints that you don't intend.
I remember this don't smile until six months rule, but have never followed it. I think that humour does a lot to pave the way to a good classroom and getting to know your students as individuals is paramount to ultimately doing a good job. The more they see you as a human being the easier it is to join in the learning together.
Sometimes when this happened to me, (although I don't claim the good looking part of your description) I would hold an election. I would write down all the things that I thought I could do for the class including a short overview of what I could teach them so they could pass the exam. I then invited the leader of rebels to list what he could do and it often was allowing them to swear, eat, fool around, no homework and so on. Sometimes I had to write down this on the board for them as they were reluctant to actually come up and take part but would tell me what they didn't want to do. Then I handed out a ballot and they cast their vote. I never lost but said that I would take into consideration some of the ideas - having a day off in class to do fun things like eat or watch a movie or go on a picnic and so on. There is a lot of English in conducting this lesson and some democracy and a way of telling them what you hope to accomplish.
I would also include a great deal of practice with the exam. Show them how it works and let them practice old samples and so on. Always believe in them and they might be more than you think. A lot of problem students actually have dyslexia or ADD or other problems that have been missed and are intelligent but are stuck in a class that is below their abilities so are angry. If you presume that all the poor students are like this, your expectations will take them far.
If you were somehow able to look at this young man's life as a whole, you might see that he treats all women like this and might even do well in his eyes with this behaviour. There are some women who like the "bad" student. I would be extremely careful in keeping him back. He might have told everyone that you wanted to see him privately because you liked him. Make sure the door is open when you interview him privately or take him to a more public place. He might even believe that you are dropping him hints that you don't intend.
I remember this don't smile until six months rule, but have never followed it. I think that humour does a lot to pave the way to a good classroom and getting to know your students as individuals is paramount to ultimately doing a good job. The more they see you as a human being the easier it is to join in the learning together.
Sometimes when this happened to me, (although I don't claim the good looking part of your description) I would hold an election. I would write down all the things that I thought I could do for the class including a short overview of what I could teach them so they could pass the exam. I then invited the leader of rebels to list what he could do and it often was allowing them to swear, eat, fool around, no homework and so on. Sometimes I had to write down this on the board for them as they were reluctant to actually come up and take part but would tell me what they didn't want to do. Then I handed out a ballot and they cast their vote. I never lost but said that I would take into consideration some of the ideas - having a day off in class to do fun things like eat or watch a movie or go on a picnic and so on. There is a lot of English in conducting this lesson and some democracy and a way of telling them what you hope to accomplish.
I would also include a great deal of practice with the exam. Show them how it works and let them practice old samples and so on. Always believe in them and they might be more than you think. A lot of problem students actually have dyslexia or ADD or other problems that have been missed and are intelligent but are stuck in a class that is below their abilities so are angry. If you presume that all the poor students are like this, your expectations will take them far.