How long does it take to.... Articles that respond to this

jesl · Post by **jesl** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:53 am

Hi guys, I am looking for some articles in well known publications that put an end to the question(s) How long will it take to learn a langauge well, or how long will it take to be fluent in English, or why can't I learn faster, etc, etc, etc, you see where I am going with this.

I get tired of my students asking me this question, especially when it is a one on one class. I have constantly told them that learning a langauge simply takes time and patience, etc. But of course some of them feel frustrated and want to give up. I am a good teacher and my students trust me, but sometimes I am afraid they will give up or lose confidence no matter what I say. So I thought it may be helpful if I ask them to read an article to me about this topic that really does get down to the reality of learning a langauge and how long it may take.

If anyone has any websites that I can go to to print off some articles it would be much appreciated... I have found some things but they are not in well known publications and the articles are less than a page.

Thanks in advance!

Sally Olsen · Post by **Sally Olsen** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:19 pm

Pretty extensive coverage of this topic at Wickipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_lan ... cquisition

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:57 pm

Don't take this the wrong way, but don't you think it should be your responsibility to find and perhaps summarize whatever answers might be out there, for your own benefit at least? SLA research is hardly scintillating reading, and I get the feeling that you haven't done much.

The Blackwell Handbook of Applied Linguistics has a number of linked chapters that provide potentially useful if not interesting overviews (you don't have to get the book, but you could try Googling the various authors):
Ch 3 - SLA and Ultimate Attainment, by David Birdsong
Ch 8 - Language Attrition, by Monica S. Schmid & Kees De Bot
Ch 17 - The Native Speaker in AL, by Alan Davies
Ch 20 - Second Language Learning, by William Littlewood
Ch 21 - Individual Differences in SLL, by Rod Ellis

And no, I haven't read all of the above in detail myself yet! But then, I don't get that many students asking me these sorts of questions nowadays - maybe that's because I'm always trying to simply push ahead with introducing functional tasks that chip away at the mass to be learned, that each time cover a few of the 3000 or so most frequent words and the phrasal combinations that they enter into.

Lastly, I'd advise that you ask this sort of question on the AL forum too - you're likely to get more of response there.

jesl · Post by **jesl** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:22 pm

Hello fluffymamster,

Thank you for your comments.

AL forums? Can you give me the link, seems I may not be familar with that site yet.

Indeed I have been doing a lot of research, but am not finding much, and my schedule does not allow me to do as much as I would like. Yes, I do think it is my responsibilty to some degree, but I figured others out there may have some ideas that I didnt think about before.

I am not sure why you do not have issues with your students asking this question, perhaps you live in a different country than I do and students there just don't ask that... It seems like a very common thing where I am, and I know for a fact a lot of it stems from the really bad education system. Also the students you are teaching could be of a lower level than those that I am teaching, there are so many different factors. Basic students tend not to ask me this question, it is the more intermediate and advance students who ask more.

Anyway, let me know which website you are referring to so I can ask the question there and read through their forums.

I will also check out the handbook you listed in your post and try to do more research on the topic myself

Thank you.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:02 am

Hi again Jesl! AL stands for Applied Linguistics - its part of these Dave's ESL Cafe's Teacher forums! Fourth one down in fact:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/index.php

Or directly, if you prefer:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewforum.php?f=3

OK, I'll admit that in Japan, where there is no end of students who will forever languish at preintermediate in some godforsaken eikaiwa (and these are the ones who are motivated to go beyoond their awful schooling!), I was sometimes asked this sort of question, but I never tore myself up about not giving a very considered answer, and just got on like I say with the job at hand, and directed students to good dictionaries and grammar books so that they could learn by themselves etc; plus, I taught mainly elementary school students in my final few years there. Students in China on the other hand, or studying in the UK, seemed more motivated and generally (had) attained a higher level, so the question didn't get asked so much, was made moot by their visble progress, goals and availability of exams to take and pass etc. My ambition still though is to devise a course that will be so powerful and complete that the question of "what to do (to...)" won't be asked by anyone who's worked through most of it (it shouldn't take years and years to master a language!).

jesl · Post by **jesl** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:46 am

Thanks for your quick reply fluffy and info.

I recommend a lot of things to my students already, but it never seems to sink in. I am in Taiwan by the way. I can hold a conversation with my students, they are at that level. I don't need to teach them ABC or 5000 easy vocab words, actually they want to know more advanced stuff, but some of them always feel they are not improving despite hundreds of times of assurances, testing, feeling, etc. It's a huge lack of confidence in my opinion more than anything else, but I feel if I can give them an article to read, maybe it will finally sink in that truely they are not alone.

You are right, it should not take years and years, but if they are only having class once a week, then it may take decades! Especiall if they do nothing other than have class once a week for 2 hours....

Sally Olsen · Post by **Sally Olsen** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:26 pm

Interesting that you should mention that it is question of self-confidence. It might be a question of culture as well. Do you put themselves down about other things as well? It might just be a mode of communication like the young teenage girls in North America who often complain that they are fat so you will say something complimentary about their looks. Most people want to hear praise about their talents or attributes. Perhaps if you anticipate their complaints with some solid positive comments on their progress, they will stop having to fish for a compliment. I always use the line, "This is the best class I have taught and I particularly enjoy your challenging questions or your quick response or knowledge of tenses or ....."

eslweb · Post by **eslweb** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:19 pm

When I get answered this question, I generally say the following:
"1 year from beginner to get to a level where you can pass an IELTs with grade 6 or above provided you work really hard.... This could be reduced to 9 months if you don't speak another word of your 1st language! ...And for real fluency I suggest about 3 years in an environment where you are speaking English all the time."

It is just based on my experience and the need to balance giving them realistic goals without disheartening them... I'd be interested to see if any ELT teachers were in a position to do real research on it...

James

jesl · Post by **jesl** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:18 pm

for further discussion please add your comments here:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewt ... c&start=15

Thanks,

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How long does it take to.... Articles that respond to this

How long does it take to.... Articles that respond to this

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