DELTA?

blahblahblah · Post by **blahblahblah** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:34 pm

I have a few years of overseas tefl experience and now find myself thinking about doing this full time. If I am going to do that I would prefer to end up in administration eventually (or sooner) with this in mind is the DELTA worthwhile, neccesary or would a masters or some other accreditation be better?

I am also concerned a little about the methodology, I found the CELTA to be a bit one dimensional and unaccepting of alternatives to the PPP model of teaching.

Would appreciate advice from anyone who completed the course or who works in admin.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:05 pm

As a career move the DELTA definitely has a lot to recommend it as it sends a signal that you're a serious teacher, not just someone using TEFL to survive while you spend a few years travelling and "find yourself". Unfortunately my experience was that it worked very much on the assumption that there's one way to teach and consequently you spend the first few weeks working out what your observers want to see, then doing it in order to pass. I found I learned more from the others on the course than from the course itself.

Here in the UK, it substantially increases your chances of being kept on when work is slack, and you get paid more (about 50p an hour more, so after about 3000 hours the course will have paid for itself). More generous employers (or those with enough business sense to realise it pays to be able to say their teachers have the Dip) may help you out with the course fee of about £1500.

No regrets about doing it as it helped me get to where I wanted to be. At the end of the day, more and more people are getting the diploma so if you don't have it, someone else will.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:03 pm

So, lolwhites, it would be fair to say that you were a little disappointed with what your Dip was offering (in terms of knowledge and knowledge "options", rather than raw career prospects), and persevered only because it was your breadticket?

And what of the second part of bbb's question - "or would a masters or some other accreditation be better?".

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:14 pm

Aww, I dunno. Maybe employers really do just "need" a person who can stride into a classroom, confidently clap their hands and shout something not that far removed (if you really think about it) from, "Okay, everybody, repeat after me: I'm a teapot"? Or does the DELTA offer more than the CELTA does (linguistically speaking)?

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:22 pm

Oh, wait, I was forgetting that the whole point of doing a DELTA is to escape the grim awful realities of the classroom and to get into management or other "cushier" positions where our DELTA-honed "talents" (whatever they might be!) get fully utilized.

Do you want one sugar or two in your tea, lol? Ooh, that was, I believe, an "alternative" yes-no type of question, maybe one of those should find its way into that fab worksheet I'll be making over the rest of the week! Ooh what's that I see on the CCTV? Dammit classroom A's caught fire! Oi you, teacher X, be a darling and go put that out would you? I know it's your teabreak, but can't you see I'm busy making some not only for myself but also lol here? (Flutters eyelids in a "Who could possibly say no to me!" manner)...

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:13 pm

Well, it's true that I read The English Verb for the first time on my Dip course, though I probably would have read it anyway... Apart from that the course content was mediocre, but as those of us doing the course had taught in loads of different countries there was a great pool of experience to learn from. Then again, you can say that for most EFL staffrooms; you don't need to shell out £1500 to talk to someone who's worked in the Middle East or Kazakhstan.

As for getting me a job managing a department, I actually manage a modern languages department, not an EFL one, so that's got more to do with my PGCE and Spanish qualifications. As far as career enhancement goes, I found that having the DELTA means you get to keep your job when all around you are losing theirs - anyone who's worked in a private language school through the end of August cull in Bournemouth or Brighton will know exactly what I'm talking about... though I suppose if you want to climb the greasy pole, not getting laid off does help. The DELTA was what got me out of language schools and into Further Education Colleges where the working conditions are slightly less precarious.

As for MAs, I'm not in a position to comment. I did look into doing an MA in Applied Linguistics, but as I already have a degree in Linguistics (which included an option in AL), when I rang up a university and asked "what will be new for me on this course?" the answer they gave was "not much".

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:12 am

Wow, I didn't realize you were so well qualified, lolwhites! I'm surprised you or your employers felt you needed more than just a CELTA on top of everything else you'd already done, but if the DELTA keeps you from being laid off and/or is an extra string to your bow (in their eyes at least), then I guess it was money "well spent". Certainly, I, with just a first degree, a flimsy (and now rusty!) one-year postgrad diploma in Mandarin and a CTEFLA shouldn't begrudge having to eventually do a further TEFL qualification so much if people like you didn't (begrudge doing it).

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:46 pm

Actually, it worked out like this:

1) Joint Honours Degree in Spanish and Linguistics
2) CELTA - to get into TEFL
3) DELTA - to get work in UK outside the summer months - passed theory exam but not the practical
4) Started PGCE to get into FE - at the same time got a lesson observed for DELTA and finally passed.

Had I got the DELTA first time around I might not have bothered with the PGCE, or if I'd done the PGCE first I wouldn;t have bothered with the DELTA. What swung it for me was that during a job interview for a TEFL job in a private language school, the Director of Studies started muttering darkly, half to me half to himself, about how he wished he'd done a PGCE like his brother and gone into state school teaching.

What this had to do with my job interview is anyone's guesss; I just made my excuses and left.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:16 pm

Yeah I kind of sussed 3) out for myself but I didn't want to grill you any more about it.

Getting the practical side of the DELTA completed seems to be a big headache, is it worth all the aggro if your average lesson after you've passed is maybe going to revert back to more mortal CELTA-like levels (or perhaps be entirely different from anything the RSA could ever envisage)?!

Strange that that guy was wishing he'd got into the state school system, I'd've thought that could've been pretty stressful (masses of paperwork and complying with endless government directives and intitiatives), especially below FE level.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:33 pm

We get lots of paperwork and government intiatives too and even less money to play with than secondary schools (schools get the headlines so that's where the votes are, hence they get the lions share of the cash). FE lecturers earn less than schoolteachers and contrary to popular belief, most of our students don't want to be here (those who want to learn go to their local school 6th form). Still better paid and more secure than private language schools, but you do have to work for it.

Sure, my observed class was very unlike my typical classes. It was a case of jumping through the hoop but that's what you have to do if you want your fish (Bark! Bark! Clap! Clap! CLUB! CLUB!).

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:21 pm

That's an eye-opener about FE. I guess I was lucky in my choice of FE College, then (the students seemed pretty motivated, and the teachers pretty good). I chose to go to an FE college because my secondary school's sixth form was rapidly shrinking, and under constant threat of closure and/or amalgamation (and eventually, the entire school got demolished, I guess the demographics had changed considerably in our ward, so that only the more popular/"better" schools retained the necessary level of enrollment).

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:43 pm

fluffyhamster wrote:Wow, I didn't realize you were so well qualified, lolwhites!

By that, I just meant, I was imagining you were a TEFL teacher who'd somehow boned up on things beyond RSA courses, and to a very high level (judging by your posts on Dave's).

I think if I ever get around to (saving enough money for!) doing a further qualification, I'll skip the DELTA if possible and try to get onto an MA in AL course. I am sure there would be a lot I could learn on such a course (ultimately, however, I wish I'd done linguistics and/or a foreign language at undergraduate level, like you, lol! I picked an "easy" subject - history - and was lazy with it).

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:50 pm

Interesting article about the DELTA

http://education.guardian.co.uk/tefl/co ... 20,00.html

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:40 am

It's hard to respond to what Brigham is "saying". Generally, I think anyone who goes on to do a DELTA after the whole CELTA experience expecting much from the further training/qualification itself, and who then seems to be expecting huge financial recompense for having just jumped through what ultimately were hoops to get what is, objectively, a piece of paper, doesn't really have much of a point, do they! Sour grapes from those once bitten but not twice shy, surely? He should've found a decent MA programme instead, I think! (I am sure that MANY would contest that the DELTA is 'still regarded as the highest practical ELT teaching qualification out there'. Who exactly is doing the regarding here? Brigham, because he wants his hard-earnt and now spent, shelled-out shekles to still count for something, especially since the crap course's nasty written exam component made him break even the slightest of sweats?).

That is, he may complain that teachers should be allowed to take truckloads of reference books into the exam, have less limited time to come up with things, have coffee breaks in which to chin-wag with, and cadge ideas and activities off of, fellow examinees etc, but shouldn't a teacher at that level be secure enough in their knowledge to handle an exam/"academic" pressure generally?

My only concern, as I have more or less implied if not directly said above and elsewhere, is that the people assessing the ideas are those very same people who come up with generally such mediocre training, aids, materials and coursebooks, for teachers who are as "busy" as they themselves once were.

Put simply, "expertise" takes a lot of experience coupled with KNOWLEDGE, and exams would seem a fair way of picking at the knowledge components underlying a teacher's abilities. The question should perhaps more be, is the (expected/anticpated/"model"*) application of what little knowledge is demonstrated the best application of that knowledge (we all know how much "traditional" guff underlies many "chesnut" activities) - can "limited" knowledge (whether by evaluation format or itself limited to begin with, I see little ultimate difference, let's be honest, when teachers with even several years of "hands on, tongues waggling, brains off" experience are concerned) result in much of much ultimate worth?

I think there would be a lot to be said for making training courses and qualifications more, not less, academic; I for one would presume that the eventual applications and results stemming from the knowledge would be a reflection of, and potentially greater, than the sum of their parts (then again, maybe not - I mean, look at how little practical stuff actually surfaces during the often long and involved academic wranglings here on the "AL" forum especially.

Maybe we are to assume that the brilliant minds on display work in very priveleged settings, where the students are so able and motivated that they are more than ready for lectures on tense, aspect and modality than the verb "to be"

. What I'm trying to say is, coming up with something that you know is a "great way to teach it" has to ultimately always be a very personal process>product. It helps if others can supply missing bits of knowledge or pointers, but blending it all takes passion and commitment, which nobody but the teacher themselves can make up for or supply).

*I am sure the examiners have some sort of model answer in mind; I doubt if they are looking for or positively rewarding earth-shattering and paradigm-changing linguistic insights (that could e.g. potentially refute the questions/tasks themselves). Nice tasty pat patty cakes only, please.

tigertiger · Post by **tigertiger** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:50 am

Lolwhites, Fluffy,
Different topic, but you both seem to know a lot about the value of courses.
I am about to embark on something new and want advice on courses that would best equip me for what I need to do. I am looking for tools not just a piece of paper.

I already have a dodgy TEFL certificate, 60 hrs online- 20 hrs classroom.
I have been teaching English to corporate clients for over a year at on of the big global brand language schools. This has been using their set course materials, so I have not done any real lesson planning.
However I have also been managing at this establishment for a year and have learned a lot about the business, how to run/not run the business.

I have previous management experience. To wrap up my MBA (Open University) I did the Leadership and Management in Education Course (60 units/9 months study). I am now transferring these 60 credits towards an MA (180 credits) in Education (Applied Linguistics). My next course starts in February, Teaching of English to Speakers of Other Languages Worldwide (60 units).

The complication is that I will be starting my own business about then. The main reason is that I work and live in Asia and am not happy with the local management style, I can do better for staff and students alike.

I want to be able to evaluate student needs/requirements and provide tailored courses to corporate clients. I will be employing others teachers who will have experience in curriculum development, but I also must have knowledge. I am considering CELTA, TESOL, TEFL and other intensive courses to help equip me in the short term.

Any advice on couses, texts, or other info is much welcomed.