Another preposition puzzle

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:15 am

LarryLatham wrote:
Don't you all think it's wonderful how flexible English can be (as long as there's not a teacher in the room).

Larry Latham

Larry, if I wasn't my own linguistic hero, you would be.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:53 am

metal56 wrote:No, Utah is bounded. Officially. There is "in-ness with Utah".

Agreed, M56, but Greenland, Iceland, Taiwan, Maui, and Jersey are all just as much 'bounded' where they meet the sea. There is "in-ness" to them too, as I'm sure you would agree. However, those places also have "on-ness", which Utah does not seem to possess, perhaps because the boundries of Utah are arbitrarily and artificially determined--that is, they have nothing to do with the land mass that comprises Utah. Utah could, however, have "at-ness" if the user chooses to consider the whole state as a single place...an unlikely circumstance, I'll admit, but still entirely possible. (And so therefore, "correct.")

Larry Latham

[edit] Oh, thanks, M56. I didn't see this last post of yours before I composed my own here. Yes, I've noticed before that you and I seem to see eye to eye on an awfully lot when it comes to language.

Even when we argue, it is quite a pleasure for me.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:45 am

LarryLatham wrote:
metal56 wrote:No, Utah is bounded. Officially. There is "in-ness with Utah".
Agreed, M56, but Greenland, Iceland, Taiwan, Maui, and Jersey are all just as much 'bounded' where they meet the sea. There is "in-ness" to them too, as I'm sure you would agree. However, those places also have "on-ness", which Utah does not seem to possess, perhaps because the boundries of Utah are arbitrarily and artificially determined--that is, they have nothing to do with the land mass that comprises Utah. Utah could, however, have "at-ness" if the user chooses to consider the whole state as a single place...an unlikely circumstance, I'll admit, but still entirely possible. (And so therefore, "correct.")

Larry Latham

[edit] Oh, thanks, M56. I didn't see this last post of yours before I composed my own here. Yes, I've noticed before that you and I seem to see eye to eye on an awfully lot when it comes to language. Even when we argue, it is quite a pleasure for me.

Larry wrote:

Agreed, M56, but Greenland, Iceland, Taiwan, Maui, and Jersey are all just as much 'bounded' where they meet the sea.

Yes, they too are bounded, but with them there is a root use of "on" for islands. They are also ways of being on and off those islands. With Utah you cannot be on or off.

However, those places also have "on-ness", which Utah does not seem to possess, perhaps because the boundries of Utah are arbitrarily and artificially determined--that is, they have nothing to do with the land mass that comprises Utah.

Utah has the possibilty of being contained within or not contained within - in Utah (?at also ) or not in/out of Utah (?not at Utah).

Even when we argue, it is quite a pleasure for me.

No it isn't. Yes, it is. No it isn't.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:21 am

Metal56 wrote:Larry wrote:

Quote:
Agreed, M56, but Greenland, Iceland, Taiwan, Maui, and Jersey are all just as much 'bounded' where they meet the sea.

Yes, they too are bounded, but with them there is a root use of "on" for islands...

Can you clarify? What do you mean here by 'root use of "on"'?

Larry Latham

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:40 am

Can you clarify? What do you mean here by 'root use of "on"'?

Larry Latham

What's the first positional preposition that springs to mind when you think of the word island?

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:46 am

The whole thing is endlessly fascinating. Do we see these man-devised, political geography entities as having raised edges, making them shallow containers. You're in a club but on a committee, though.

Are the prepositions used in logical groups? It's consistent that you're thrown out of a country or a club and off a committee , a farm, a reservation, or an island.

My Spanish friends find the use of America and Americans for The US and Its Citizens very sloppy by the way. They ask "If we are Spanish and Europeans, what are Canadians or Mexicans: Canadians/Mexicans and what?" which is a good question to ask, especially to Canadians! They definitely live on the continent of North America. Are they North Americans?