An argument for reading in the target language

[Lorikeet]

I've been following this thread sorta kinda, although I admit to not reading every word. I must have missed the discussion of eclectic, although I find it interesting that you seem to feel it's a pejorative now. Having been carefully ensconced in a classroom for over thirty years, I have been blithely going along figuring I was using an eclectic method, and have been happy about it. Hrmmm. I thought taking ideas from here and there and adding them to the whole was a good thing!

[Atréju]

Ha!

More response than I imagined, I read especially your response, Fluffy, with interest. Those of the others too, of course, but those were less dedicated to reading, nearing the bottom of the page.

But perhaps I should just assume that you would/could/can teach these basic words thoroughly and in your own special way and without any problems or issues cropping up.

Yes, read my sandwich thread!

How do you like this:

( Check for the frequency of a word, 86800 words in archive: http://www.fabrica.it/wordcount/main.php )

I put Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz through a word count program, at:

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ballc ... freqs.html

( I made a list of children’s books mostly out of copyright at: http://www.howard81.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84 )



And got this – this is also what I use to make sandwich stories, If you want to know the exact procedure, how I do it, ask me, it is easy!.

BEAUTIES 2
BEAUTIFUL 26
BEAUTIFULLY 4
BEAUTY 1
BECAME 12
BECAUSE 55
BECOME 13
BECOMES 1
BECOMING 1
BED 6
BED-TIME 1
BEDS 1
BEEN 74
BEES 1
BEFORE 65
BEG 2
BEGAN 37
BEGGED 3
BEGGING 1
BEGIN 5
BEGINNING 5
BEGUN 1
BEHAVE 1
BEHAVED 1
BEHELD 4
BEHIND 9
BEHOLD 2
BEING 48
BEINGS 2
BELIEVE 9
BELIEVED 1
BELIEVES 1
BELL 1
BELLS 3
BELONG 8
BELONG--AND 1
BELONGED 6
BELOVED 1
BELOW 14
BELT 11
BENCH 3
BENCHES 2
BENEATH 5
BENT 4
BERRY 1
BESIDE 17
BESIDES 1
BEST 14
BET 1
BETTER 20
BETWEEN 9
BEWILDERED 2
BEYOND 4
BIG 42
BIGGER 5
BIGGEST 1
BIGNESS 1
BILL 2
BILLINA 8
BILLINA'S 1
BILLOWS 1
BIRD 2
BIRD-CAGE 4
BIRDS 6
BIRTH 1
BIT 6
BITE 2
BITING 2
BITS 1
BITTEN 2
BITTERLY 1
BLACK 15
BLACKNESS 1
BLADE 1
BLADES 3
BLAME 2
BLEED 1
BLIND 1
BLINDED 1
BLINKED 1
BLINKING 3
BLOCKED 1
BLOOD 8
BLOOMING 1
BLOSSOM 4
BLOW 3
BLOWN 1
BLUE 12
BLUES 1
BOARD 1
BOARDS 2
BODICE 1
BODIES 11
BODIES--SO 1
BODILY 2
BODY 18
BOLDLY 1
BONES 8
BONEY 4
BONFIRE 1
BONY 2
BOOK 5
BOOK--MINE 1
BOOKS 2
BOOST 1
BORE 3
BORED 1
BORN 5
BORROW 1
BOSOM 1
BOSSED 1
BOTH 18
BOTHER 1
BOTHERED 2
BOTTOM 8
BOUDOIR 2
BOUND 1
BOW 6
BOWED 8
BOWING 2
BOWL 3
BOWS 1
BOWSPRITS 1
BOX 6
BOXES 1
BOXING-MATCH 1
BOY 71
BOY'S 2
BOYS 1
BRACE 1
BRACELETS 1
BRAID 1
BRAIDED 6
BRAIDS 3
BRAINS 4
BRANCH 2
BRANCHES 1
BRAVE 2
BRAVERY 1
BREAD 1
BREAK 4
BREAKFAST 9
BREAKFASTED 1
BREAKING 2
BREAST 1
BREATH 16
BREATHE 5
BREATHED 1
BREATHLESS 3
BREATHS 2
BREEDING 1
BRIDGES 4
BRIGHT 4
BRIGHTLY 3
BRILLIANT 4
BRILLIANTLY 2
BRIM 1
BRING 5
BRISKLY 2
BROAD 19
BROAD-LEAVED 1
BROADEN 1
BROADER 1
BROADEST 1
BROCADES 1
BROKE 2
BROKEN 4
BROOK 2
BROOKS 6
BROTHER 2
BROTHERS 1
BROUGHT 22
BROW 2
BROWN 1
BROWSING 2
BRUSHING 1
BUBBLING 1
BUCKLE 1
BUCKLED 1
BUCKLES 1
BUD 1
BUFFALOES 1
BUG 1
BUGGY 82
BUGGY--WITH 1
BUGGY-WHEELS 2
BUILDING 3
BUILDINGS 4
BUILT 10
BULLET 2
BULLETS 1
BUNCH 1
BUNTING 1
BURNISHED 1
BURY 1
BUSH 11
BUSHES 5
BUSHY 1
BUSILY 3
BUSINESS 2
BUSY 2
BUT 344
BUTTONED 1
BUTTONS 4
BUY 1
BY 108
BYE 2
CAB 1
CAB-HORSE 31
CABBAGES 1
CACKLING 1
CAGE 4
CALIFORNIA 2
CALIFORNY 1
CALL 9
CALLED 29
CALLING 3
CALM 4
CALMLY 3
CAME 64
CAN 104
CAN'T 27
CANARY-BIRDS 1
CANCEL 1
CANNON 1
CANNOT 28
CANOPY 2
CAPTAIN-GENERAL 2
CAPTAIN-GENERAL'S 1
CAPTAINS 1
CAPTOR 1
CAPTORS 1
CAPTURED 2
CAR 3
CARD-BOARD 1
CARE 6
CARED 1
CAREFUL 7
CAREFULLY 11
CARELESS 2
CARELESSLY 1
CARRIED 10
CARRY 6
CARRYING 2
CARS 1
CARVED 4
CASE 9
CAST 4
CAT 13
CAT-TAILS 1
CATCH 8
CATCHING 2
CATS 3
CATSUP 1
CAUGHT 15
CAUSE 2
CAUSED 3
CAUTION 1
CAUTIONED 2
CAUTIOUSLY 1
CAVE 15
CAVERN 12
CAVES 1
CEASE 1
CEASED 1
CEASES 1
CELLAR 1
CENTER 9
CENTRAL 3
CENTURIES 1
CEREMONIES 2
CEREMONY 2
CERTAIN 7
CERTAINLY 7
CHAIR 3
CHAIRS 4
CHALLENGE 1
CHAMBER 1
CHAMBERS 1
CHAMPION 10
CHANCE 3
CHANCES 1
CHANGE 1
CHANGED 2
CHANGING 1
CHARGE 1
CHARGING 1
CHARIOT 4
CHARM 2
CHARMING 2
CHASE 1
CHASM 1
CHATTER 1
CHEEK 1
CHEER 1
CHEERED 4
CHEERFUL 1
CHEERFULLY 4
CHEERS 1
CHEERY 1
CHEESE 1
CHERRIES 1
CHEST 2
CHEW 1
CHICAGO 1
CHIEF 4
CHILD 6
CHILDISH 3
CHILDREN 29
CHILDREN'S 2
CHINKS 1
CHINS 1
CHIPPED 1
CHOOSE 1
CHOOSES 1
CHOPPED 3
CHOPPER 5
CHOSE 1
CHUCKLED 1
CHUCKLES 1
CHUNK 1
CHUNKS 1
CIR'STANCES 1
CIRCLE 6
CIRCLED 3
CIRCULAR 1
CIRCUMSTANCES 1
CIRCUS 8
CITIES 1
CITIZENS 6
CITY 38
CLAIM 1
CLAP 1
CLAPPED 1
CLATTER 2
CLAW 1
CLAWS 7
CLAY 1
CLEANED 1
CLEAR 7
CLEARER 1
CLEARLY 5
CLEVER 5
CLEVERLY 1
CLIMB 13
CLIMBED 9
CLIMBING 1
CLINGING 4
CLOCKWORK 1
CLOSE 7
CLOSED 6
CLOSELY 3
CLOSETS 1
CLOTH 1
CLOTHED 1
CLOTHES 1
CLOTHING 4
CLOUD 5
CLOUDS 7
CLOVER 2
CLUB 3
CLUMSY 1
CLUNG 4
CLUSTERED 3
CLUSTERS 1
CLUTCHED 1
COAL-SCUTTLES 1
COALS 1
COARSE 1
COAT 2
COLD 6
COLDLY 1
COLLAR 2
COLLECTING 1
COLLEGE 3
COLOR 3
COLORED 19
COLORS 2
COLT 1
COMBAT 1
COMBED 1
COME 54
COMES 6
COMFORT 2
COMFORTABLE 1
COMFORTABLY 5
COMFORTED 1
COMFORTING 1
COMICAL 4
COMING 9
COMMAND 2
COMMANDED 3
COMMANDS 1
COMMENCED 4
COMMIT 1
COMMITTED 1
COMMON 1
COMMONPLACE 1
COMPANION 2
COMPANIONS 2
COMPANIONSHIP 1
COMPANY 8
COMPARED 1
COMPLAIN 2
COMPLAINED 1
COMPLETED 2
COMPLETELY 1
COMPLEXIONS 1
COMPOSED 1
COMPOSEDLY 1
COMRADES 1
CONCEALED 1
CONCERNED 1
CONDEMNED 1
CONDITION 2
CONDITIONS 1
CONDUCT 1
CONDUCTOR 3
CONE 1
CONFESS 1
CONFESSION 1
CONFIDENCE 1
CONFIDENT 1
CONFINED 1
CONFINEMENT 2
CONFINING 1
CONFUSED 3
CONFUSION 1
CONNECTION 1
CONQUER 2
CONQUERED 4
CONSCIENCE 6
CONSCIENCES 1
CONSCIOUSNESS 1
CONSENTED 1
CONSIDER 3
CONSIDERABLE 2
CONSIDERATION 2
CONSIDERED 3
CONSIST 1
CONSISTED 1
CONSOLIDATED 1
CONSTANT 1
CONSTANTLY 5
CONSTRUCTED 1
CONSUMED 3
CONTAIN 1
CONTAINING 1
CONTAINS 1
CONTEMPTUOUS 1
CONTENT 2
CONTENTED 4
CONTENTEDLY 1
CONTINUALLY 1
CONTINUE 3
CONTINUED 21
CONTROL 1
CONTROLLED 1
CONVENIENCE 1
CONVERSATION 2
CONVERSE 1
CONVERSED 1
CONVINCING 1
COOK 2
COOL 1
COPPER 2
CORD 1
CORDIALLY 1
CORDS 1
CORK-SCREW 1
CORNER 9
CORNERED 1
CORNERS 4
CORNET 1
CORONADO 1
CORONET 3
CORRECTING 1
CORRESPONDENTS 2
COSTUME 2
COSTUMES 2
COTTAGE 4
COTTAGES 3
COTTON 1
COULD 105
COULDN'T 11
COUNSEL 1
COUNT 1
COUNTENANCE 1
COUNTRIES 6
COUNTRY 43
COURAGE 1
COURAGEOUS 1
COURSE 24
COURT 3
COURTIERS 1
COURTYARD 2
COUSINS 1
COVERED 11
COWARD 1
COWARDLY 6
COWS 3
CRACK 13
CRACK--OR 1
CRACKED 2
CRACKERS 2
CRACKLE 1
CRACKS 2
CRASH 4
CRAWL 3
CRAWLED 1
CRAZY 1
CREAKED 1
CREATE 1
CREATED 3
CREATING 1
CREATURE 23
CREATURE'S 1
CREATURES 23
CREDIT 1
CREEPING 3
CREPT 6
CRESTFALLEN 1
CRIED 41
CRIME 10
CRIMINAL 3
CRISS-CROSS 1
CRITICISE 1
CROCODILES 1
CROOKED 1
CROSS 3
CROUCHED 2
CROWD 7
CROWDED 3
CROWDS 2
CROWN 1
CROWNED 2
CRUEL 7
CRUNCHING 1
CRUSH 4
CRUSHED 1
CRUSHING 1
CRUST 1
CRY 2
CRYSTAL 1
CUDDLED 1
CUFF 1
CUNNING 1
CUP 1
CURIOSITY 2
CURIOUS 6
CURIOUSLY 3
CURLED 2
CURRENT 1
CURTAINS 1
CURVE 1
CURVED 2
CURVING 1
CUT 12
CUTS 2
CUTTING 1
CYCLONE 1
DAINTILY 2
DAINTY 4
DAMA-FRUIT 5
DAMAGE 4
DAMAGING 1
DAMAS 4
DAMP 1
DAMPNESS 1
DANCED 1
DANGER 7
DANGEROUS 6
DANGEROUSLY 1
DANGLE 1
DARE 1




The way to learn things is to come across them at short intervals at first and at longer intervals later. Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz is a short book, but even so many words occur often. There are those that say you, I haven’t the book on me, that the chance of your learning a word when you’re exposed to it once, is 13 percent, and that after you’ve seen the word 5-10 times the chance of your remembering the word is already very good. Many words occur many more times than that, you may have noticed.

Again on sandwich stories: they are written in the native language of the student, with some frequently used words ‘sandwiched in.’ Given that the book is in the native language of the student, he will have little difficulty understanding the book and is advancing at a reasonable pace. As he is reading at a reasonable pace, and so will have finished the book in no more than a few weeks, he will have come upon the words many times in those few weeks. If the word is used less frequently, you just increase the bulk of reading material, and of course then also the number of words you put in, keeping the percentage of unknown words constant.

The main plus of reading is, I think, the time you can devote to it without getting sick of it and wanting to stop. I can remember reading the Harry Potter series from dawn ‘till dusk, while in Spain, and I assure that is not something I do with the average study book.


There are those that say you can begin reading in the target language when you've a vocabulary of 3000-4000 words, I say: you can begin reading children's books with a vocabulary of 750-1500 words -- the right words that is, those that are most frequent.

[fluffyhamster]

Hi Lorikeet. Actually, I myself think that, in the absence of that Perfect Method, eclecticism is simply to be expected and should be tolerated, it's a chalk-face response to the "facts" and demands of teaching. I have however got the impression from reading books (I can't recall exactly which ones), and certainly do sometimes get the impression from forums such as these, that eclecticism is frowned upon - some believe that those who practice "it" are not "serious" in their "quest" for a "better" or indeed a "best" way to teach. But this haughty attitude is rather overlooking the fact that for all the talk of "action research" and the like, developing a rigorously scientific approach on paper (in articles, papers and books!) is not exactly the job for your overworked, sometimes struggling yet often valiantly trying teacher (that's not to say teachers have nothing of value to say to linguists). Then, as we've all heard (and probably acknowledged, at least inwardly), teaching is more an art (and I don't mean of the type you create with crayons) than a science, it's hardly rocket science etc.

I'm at the stage of studying English as a subject (getting the facts right) and, from this basis, trying to duplicate natural language-as-social-phenomenon in my classrooms. Sometimes the subject has to intrude through the make-believe, but the classroom only resembles a stuffy classroom for short periods at a time (then again, it isn't all laughter and excitement every other minute either); and I certainly wouldn't want it to start resembling a language lab too much! (By that, I mean that even if language learning is made more "scientific" as a result of scientific research, and even if students don't want none of that communicative rubbish, it is unimaginable to me that they will not still be learning the language to communicate in it at some future point, and the classroom is still ultimately a social environment too. Maybe it'll be replaced/superseded by "brain immersion tanks" or "neural implants" and the like, though. ).

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 1949#11949

[fluffyhamster]

Your post there has certainly piqued my curiosity, Atreju! I will definitely get onto reading your Sanwich thread soon (as you can see, I got a little distracted by the other posts between yours on this thread! And you're right that the thread has gone a little off track from your original questions).

Anyway I think I have at least some idea of how you write your sandwich stories now, thanks. I'm imagining that you check that all the words you've used are within the higher frequency bands, and then that you use the word count as a raw indication of the intervals at which the students will meet the word (in at least the story concerned). Tell me if I'm on the right tracks here.

By the way, it's a shame your list doesn't extend to Dorothy, Dorothy's etc, I was rather hoping to see how many times her name appears in the story. (Only joking! The excerpt of the wordcount list is long enough already to give us an idea of what the full-length version looks like! ).

[Atréju]

Heu, sorry for the overkill, but you asked for it, Fluffy!:D


DONKEY 1
DOOM 1
DOOR 11
DOORS 6
DOORWAY 7
DOORWAYS 2
DOROTHY 236
DOROTHY'S 15
DOROTHY--YOU 1
DOROTHY?--SO 1
DOTTING 1


And Harry’s, Hagrid's, and Hermione’s occurrence in Harry Potter 1 & 3:


H 7
HA 7
HAAA 2
HAAAAAA 1
HABIT 2
HABITS 1
HAD 1590
HADN'T 90
HAG 2
HAGRID 542
HAGRID'S 91
HAGRIDSIZED 1
HAGS 1
HAIR 90
HAIR'S 1
HAIRCUT 3
HAIRCUTS 1
HAIRS 5
HAIRY 6
HALF 52
HALF-AND-HALF 1
HALF-BLINDED 1
HALF-CLOSED 1
HALF-GLANCE 1
HALF-LIFE 1
HALF-MOON 4
HALF-PAST 1
HALFHEARTEDLY 2
HALFWAY 17
HALL 107
HALLOWEEN 17
HALLUCIN 1
HALLUCINATIONS 1
HALLWAY 1
HALT 18
HALTED 1
HAM 2
HAMBURGER 4
HAMMER 2
HAMMERED 2
HAMMERING 2
HAMS 1
HAND 183
HAND-KNITTED 1
HANDBAG 3
HANDBOOK 4
HANDED 16
HANDFUL 7
HANDING 8
HANDKERCHIEF 8
HANDKERCHIEFS 1
HANDLE 18
HANDS 112
HANDSOME 9
HANDY 1
HANG 18
HANGER 1
HANGING 22
HANGING'S 1
HANGINGS 9
HANNAH 4
HAPPEN 28
HAPPENED 87
HAPPENIN 1
HAPPENING 10
HAPPENS 8
HAPPIER 8
HAPPIEST 2
HAPPILY 20
HAPPINESS 8
HAPPY 50
HARBOR 2
HARD 70
HARD-FACED 1
HARD-WEARING 1
HARDENED 1
HARDER 17
HARDEST 1
HARDLY 38
HARDWORKING 1
HARING 1
HARM 3
HARM'S 1
HARMLESS 3
HARNESS 1
HAROLD 1
HARP 2
HARRASSED 1
HARRY 3039
HARRY'S 293
HARSH 2
HARSHLY 2
HARVEY 1
HAS 98





HEMS 2
HEN 1
HENCEFORTH 1
HENGIST 1
HER 573
HER,,ONE 1
HERBOLOGY 8
HERBS 4
HERE 232
HERE'S 5
HEREAFTER 1
HEREBY 1
HERINIONE 3
HERMES 1
HERMIONE 860
HERMIONE'LL 1
HERMIONE'S 49
HERMLONE 2
HERMOINE 1
HERO 2
HERO'S 1
HERO-WORSHIPPED 1
HEROIC 1
HEROISM 1
HERRMONE'S 1
HERRNIONE 1
HERS 1
HERSELF 28


How to Make a Sandwich Story: I scan the book in the mother tongue of the student and in the target language, I then see if the words that are used frequently in the mother tongue can be easily, and in mostly the same way, translated into the target language. I then mark the words I want to change, and I change them. This is relatively easy if you're doing it Dutch-English, it'll only take a couple of weeks, but even Chinese-English can be done, as this study will tell you:

http://journals.cambridge.org/bin/blade ... 8402001049

I'm trying now, or in a while, to find out how effective and fun this is, this study suggests it is both.

[woodcutter]

Thank-you to Larry for backing me up when I was expecting an ear-bashing!

I view Direct Method teaching as being very communicative by the way, and very efficient too. I'm also a fan of eclecticism as an extra spice, and think people are too hung up on 'Blue Peter' style 'and since we are talking about crime here is a crime based game!' linking techniques.

In the interest of showing myself adept at pragmatics - Blue Peter is a farty British childrens TV show. (Only joking on the other thread fluff!)

Atreju, I said once before that I think that sandwich reading would teach vocabulary well and not cause long term problems because the tendency to use L1 grammar is probably quite easy to correct. However, since you advocate teaching no grammar at any stage I wonder if this will happen?

[woodcutter]

By the way, FH, I often write my posts in between classes when I should be doing something else, and it can be hard to deal with the torrents of information you provide. It makes me feel guilty to answer superficially but sometimes it just can't be helped.

I'm going to kick off another thread about flexibility now in the hope that some of the things you brought up can be dealt with.

[metal56]

http://www.onestopenglish.com/forum/Sho ... ostID=2230

TABOO IN ELT:THE USE OF L1 IN MONOLINGUAL CLASSES

[Atréju]

Atreju, I said once before that I think that sandwich reading would teach vocabulary well and not cause long term problems because the tendency to use L1 grammar is probably quite easy to correct. However, since you advocate teaching no grammar at any stage I wonder if this will happen?

I think I'll start a thread in a couple of weeks:

"Teaching Grammar?! No F#<!#g way!"

Because many of you feel grammar is somehow important and I don't, and I want to develop my thoughts further on what I think about it.

Thank you Metal, I'll do some researching on Mario Rinvolucri, no points for guessing what I think about the thread.