Guess whom/who the French love.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:21 am

Which formal writing would that be then? The memoirs of a cocaine addled lord?

"Guess.........love" is a rather chatty kind of structure. Therefore "whom" does not sit in it very easily.

This is why Lorikeet has been forced, in the "formal writing", to quote the conversation of an imaginary buffoonish butler!

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:00 pm

"Guess who the French love" is shorthand for:

"Guess who it is that the French love."

Since the object of 'guess' is the interrogative clause 'who is it?', then the form of the word 'who' is not determined by the verb 'guess' but by its function within that clause. And the verb 'to be' only allows subject status for the terms it equates.

Similarly, the object of the verb 'love' is 'that' and not 'who'. 'Who' is merely the antecedent of 'that'.

'Whom' is wrong, the product of overzealous grammar teachers.

Harzer

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:22 am

"Guess who the French love" is shorthand for:

"Guess who it is that the French love."

Wherever do you get that idea from?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:08 pm

Stephen Jones wrote:
"Guess who the French love" is shorthand for:

"Guess who it is that the French love."
Wherever do you get that idea from?

Is that a rejection of that reading?

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:47 am

Your finely honed instincts in discourse analysis have proved themselves once again

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:48 am

It is always possible to give an expanded form for such compressed sentences. (Which is not to say that the compressed form is not the more usual or more desirable.)

And in so doing one arrives at an insight into the grammatical function of the individual words.

And while I agree that on a statistical basis 'who' is overwhelmingly the favoured form, and the one I would use myself, I have not seen anyone else give any formal grammatical demonstration of the correctness of 'who' or 'whom'. So I thought I would give it a shot.

Harzer

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:50 am

It is always possible to give an expanded form for such compressed sentences. (Which is not to say that the compressed form is not the more usual or more desirable.)

And in so doing one arrives at an insight into the grammatical function of the individual words.

And while I agree that on a statistical basis 'who' is overwhelmingly the favoured form, and the one I would use myself, I have not seen anyone else give any formal grammatical demonstration of the correctness of 'who' or 'whom'. So I thought I would give it a shot.

Harzer

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:50 am

It is always possible to give an expanded form for such compressed sentences. (Which is not to say that the compressed form is not the more usual or more desirable.)

And in so doing one arrives at an insight into the grammatical function of the individual words.

And while I agree that on a statistical basis 'who' is overwhelmingly the favoured form, and the one I would use myself, I have not seen anyone else give any formal grammatical demonstration of the correctness of 'who' or 'whom'. So I thought I would give it a shot.

Harzer

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:50 am

It is always possible to give an expanded form for such compressed sentences. (Which is not to say that the compressed form is not the more usual or more desirable.)

And in so doing one arrives at an insight into the grammatical function of the individual words.

And while I agree that on a statistical basis 'who' is overwhelmingly the favoured form, and the one I would use myself, I have not seen anyone else give any formal grammatical demonstration of the correctness of 'who' or 'whom'. So I thought I would give it a shot.

Harzer

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:17 am

I don't believe that Guess who the French love is a shorthand or compressed form.