Is there a difference?

piscean21 · Post by **piscean21** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:46 pm

I'm working on a CELTA assignment and am having some problems deciphering the difference in meaning (if any) between these three sentences:
The plane is leaving at 10:00 tomorrow.
The plane leaves at 10:00 tomorrow.
The plane will leave at 10:00 tomorrow.

The first two are probably most commonly used, but the third sounds fine to me as well.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm

http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/grammar/ ... res01.html

and the links on that page will do nicely for the CELTA.

eflMEXICO · Post by **eflMEXICO** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:35 pm

Here is another good link on verb tenses future forms:

http://www.edufind.com/english/grammar/Tenses13.cfm

Anyway the chart at this link will give you a good reference on the slight distinctions between future forms.

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Paco's EFL-Mexico Forum & Community

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:49 am

I wonder if the people who set such questions can answer them very well.

Is there really any difference in meaning at all? Is it not less misleading to ask about the different occasions when each might be used?

The third use of will is a bit obscure - perhaps the "voice of authority telling us about the future" usage? Something a tour guide might say.

eflMEXICO · Post by **eflMEXICO** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:28 am

woodcutter wrote:I wonder if the people who set such questions can answer them very well.

Is there really any difference in meaning at all? Is it not less misleading to ask about the different occasions when each might be used?

The third use of will is a bit obscure - perhaps the "voice of authority telling us about the future" usage? Something a tour guide might say.

To me, it seems that the first 2 are more or less statements of time as near fact ... and the 3rd one infers an unspoken follow-on statement, such as: "So you better get there by 9." ... or "so you better plan to be there early enough to get checked in." or "so you won't get to Paris until after midnight" ... etc. Without the context around the statement or without hearing the stresses, it is hard to say. But, the 3rd one is more "couched" dependency on something else to be complete .. whereas the first 2 are more detached and stand alone without any need for additional clarification or qualification.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:58 am

the 3rd one infers an unspoken follow-on statement...

No it doesn't - it implies - it's the reader/listener who infers.

The third has the sense of the speaker predicting/affirming, as opposed to the other two which, as you quite rightly point out, present the information as a single fact.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:38 am

piscean21, please take no notice of us. Your Celta trainers want to hear the straightforward stuff, the explanations from the book or in this case from the links, however right or wrong these orthodoxies may be.

eflMEXICO · Post by **eflMEXICO** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:44 pm

lolwhites wrote:
the 3rd one infers an unspoken follow-on statement...
No it doesn't - it implies - it's the reader/listener who infers.

The third has the sense of the speaker predicting/affirming, as opposed to the other two which, as you quite rightly point out, present the information as a single fact.

Thanks for catching my vocabulary error. Word choice is important.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:39 pm

Juan is probably right, but what are they looking for, exactly?

I have heard several times here that any different sentence has a different "meaning", but I wouldn't say so, there is no difference in meaning between some formal/informal pairs for example, only a different context. Students routinely make a muck of choosing the most natural kind of future construction, but are we ever left thinking "I wonder what they mean?"

If the CELTA folks asked - What is the difference in meaning between "I think Lebanon will win the world cup" and "I think Lebanon are going to win the world cup" - what answer would you give?

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:47 pm

The main problem I see here is that the examples are not conducive to explaining the difference between the three forms. As Woodcutter points out in most situations the three sentences could be used interchangeably.

eflMEXICO · Post by **eflMEXICO** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:38 am

I think the point of the CELTA course (and this question in particular) is to also prepare teachers for hard or searching questions that students come up with. When your student asks you about the difference between "leaves" and "will leave"... simply responding that they are the same isn't helpful to the student's discovery of the language ... so the teacher needs to think more deeply about word choice and have a technical response in addition to noting that in common speaking practice (like here in this forum) that there is little discernable difference... I think that is the point rather than just trying to be difficult or give poor examples. The closer together in meaning the examples are forces us to think more deeply rather than obvious examples that lend to glossing over and moving on quickly. It has forced this discussion and inquiry process anyway, hehe!

It also depends on the English competency level of your student ... obviously you would not need to cover this tense issue with someone learning survival/literacy-level English. But; as a student advances, they will likely ask .. and it is better to have an answer and be prepared.

After all, Cambridge has to distinquish itself from the other programs out there.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:41 pm

After all, Cambridge has to distinquish itself from the other programs out there.

CELTA used to be run by RSA, the Royal Society of Arts, a fairly non-elitist trade body. At some time in the 90s they passed control to the Cambridge examination board.

I completely fail to see how you make CELTA trainees more aware of the subtle differences in language by giving them three examples where there are no differences at all. I would think the incompetence of the individual CELTA trainer is a much more likely explanation.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:26 pm

I completely fail to see how you make CELTA trainees more aware of the subtle differences in language by giving them three examples where there are no differences at all. I would think the incompetence of the individual CELTA trainer is a much more likely explanation.

Absolutely. If you're going to highlight differences in meaning, pick a context where those differences actually show up. Does your trainer ever go beyond sentence level when exploring form and meaning?

saerf · Post by **saerf** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:35 am

For me there are differences:
The plane is leaving at 10:00 tomorrow = This is the plan, but you know how planes are. Sometimes they're early, sometimes late...
The plane leaves at 10:00 tomorrow = This is the schedule put out by the airline.
The plane will leave at 10:00 tomorrow = There is no doubt that, at precisely 10:00, the plane will disconnect from the dock.

For me they are not interchangeable, each fits a specific context. Am I crazy?

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:51 am

All the passengers are in the departure lounge. Their flight has been delayed for hours. Just when they are ready to give up hope, an airline official enters with a clipboard and says,

"Great news:

The plane is leaving at 10:00 tomorrow.

The plane leaves at 10:00 tomorrow.

The plane will leave at 10:00 tomorrow.

The difference?