Does Chinese take more brain power?

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:25 am

Like The Grudge's Kanako, Xui/Shuntang's ghost casts a long shadow...I can't get the little boy, the catfight/yowling sounds, or the talk of the present perfect out of my head (OK, silly analogy, 'cos they didn't discuss grammar in the movie).

In English one is forced, for example, to distinguich an event entirely in the past from one that bears a relation to the time of speaking: 'She had ("have-PAST") broken her right arm' as opposed to 'She has'.

She had/appeared to have broken her arm.
She broke her arm (exactly when will be supplied in/by the context).
She has/appears to have broken her arm (very recently/a moment ago).
She (definitely!) has broken her arm (quite recently i.e. at least "this" once...unless...this is the first item in a potentially long list of injuries sustained in the course of a lifetime? Again, further context will make it clearer).

Talking of The Grudge, what was your favorite scene? And how does it compare to the original Japanese version (Ju on)?

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:18 pm

http://www.grsampson.net/Acsa.html

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:53 pm

Of course Sampson is right. Does De Francis also have a thesis about how the rhubarb and custard pudding his mother used to give him was only, in fact, made of custard?

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:21 pm

Some of you may remember that I once mentioned a language that was very difficult to lie in. Fluff suggested it could be Tuyuca. Apparently another candidate is Tariana, which is also spoken in the same area:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/stories/s1062928.htm

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:27 pm

Thanks for the link, lol. It was very interesting reading.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:57 pm

Of course, lying in Tariana (or Twe, or Bantu, or Navajo or any other language) is as simple as lying in English. In Tariana, for example, you merely add the proper prefix or suffix so as to say, "I saw the dog steal the fish." when you did not, in fact, see the dog steal the fish. Maybe you stole it.

Larry Latham

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:23 pm

Hey, Larry! Nice to have you back

As I remember, the problem wasn't telling simple lies like the one you describe, but keeping your story straight. So you could say I saw the dog steal the fish but, if asked to provide further details you'd come unstuck unless you were an extremely accomplished liar.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:20 pm

The cops say keeping your story straight is hard to do, even in English. That's how they usually trip up the liars, which is normally a high percentage of the people they interview. Many in our society are accomplished liars. Is there any reason to suspect that people in other societies who speak other languages are any less accomplished?

Larry Latham

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:06 pm

It's easy enough to tell blatant lies in Tariana. It's 'spin' as we know it, that may be more difficult.

And where have you been?

coffeedecafe · Post by **coffeedecafe** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:59 am

well i dislike wrong motives, but i love fiction. i am finding that i can let someone else suggest a topic and begin to write. on short stories often the story will take on a life of its own and using memories, beliefs and experiences i have encountered will build together in interesting ways. so far i have not tried long fiction.
the best fiction author i have run into at just stringing you along is named james michenor.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:08 am

This is looking more and more like a conlang discussion.

To an extent, it seems that evidentials rather than stopping you lying force you to nail your colours to the fence - either tell the truth or lie. Its being vague or disingenuous that becomes difficult. Actually, politicians rarely actually lie. If they did they would be caught out. Instead they are masters of vagueness and disingenuity.

That said, there are other ways to be disingenous, for instance, a teenager saying that they are going to the cinema when they are going to the cinema AND the pub. They haven't told a die but they haven't told the whole truth, either. As far as I can tell, evidentials would not prevent this. To do so you would need another class of words/affixes - "intentionals" for want of a better name, that stated that an action was the only action intended or whether another was intended as well.

shuntang · Post by **shuntang** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:31 pm

Does Chinese take more brain power?

Of course not. But Chinese in expressing themselves will have more brain power to focus on the idea only, while English users will have to share some brain power to care for the tense, number (singular or plural), a lot of grammar, alone with the idea.

Look at the world and you know Americans have the most brain power. Chinese have the least. I am a Chinese and therefore I know.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:20 pm

Chinese people approve of false modesty, westerners less so!

shuntang · Post by **shuntang** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:32 pm

woodcutter wrote:Chinese people approve of false modesty, westerners less so!

Agree. We Chinese have been dirtiest, ugliest, cruelest, and most of all, most unfortunate, having been invaded and insulted by all honest, glorious, kind and powerful nations in the world. It is true if you know the history of China.

coffeedecafe · Post by **coffeedecafe** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:11 am

but is it still true if one is totally ignorant of much of china's history? is it possible to be a member of those grand and glorious and yet be willing to see genius in the response of one from any nation?
if i am unaware of great happenings do they cease to exist, much as the sound of a tree falling in a forest may be doubted if it cannot be verified?
though the use of tenses in a recipe or cookbook might not be useful, in history if one item happened before another, it could be seen as cause and effect.
so tenses may be helpful sometimes and sometimes merely a distraction?