singular or plural

mwert · Post by **mwert** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:46 pm

Hello all,

Is this correct "The audience was very enthusiastic about the concert"
OR is "audience" plural ???

Thanks

wjserson · Post by **wjserson** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:04 pm

I think your example is right on the money. To make it plural you'd hav e to add a plural noun such as:

The audience members were very enthusiastic about the concert.

Singular words that semantically represent the idea of more than one individual like 'the union', 'the committee', 'the group' etc are always conjugated using the singular (as far as I can tell).

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:15 pm

Yep!

Larry Latham

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:07 pm

That's the way I always use it, but I heard in British English you could say things like "The family are...." Is that true? Just curious

dduck · Post by **dduck** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:01 pm

Lorikeet wrote:That's the way I always use it, but I heard in British English you could say things like "The family are...." Is that true? Just curious

I had an argument about this in the student's forum a couple of months ago. In the end I looked up the answer in "Practical English Usage" by Michael Swan.

You're correct in your suspicions. British English is much more flexible when it comes to collective nouns being either singular or plural. American English isn't as flexible. According to Swan, Americans sometimes do consider "family" to be plural.

Iain

Joanne · Post by **Joanne** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 9:06 am

I'm British, so I'll take your word for it that we're more flexible about collective nouns.

Raher than 'Staff receive perform-based bonuses at the end of the year,' would Americans say say 'staff receives ...?

Not planning to teach this; just curious

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:33 pm

Hi Joanne,

It's possible that Americans might use "Staff receives...", however, my guess is that the more likely casting would be something like this:

Staff members receive performance based bonuses at the end of the year.

At least in this case. Of course, no one should be surprised that there are regional differences in grammatical nuances, right? Just as you and I will certainly talk differently (our accents will differ), the way we assemble words into sentences and paragraphs probably will also not be the same. And I totally agree with you that it makes for a more interesting world.

Larry Latham

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:41 pm

I'm so happy to hear that the staff members will be receiving bonuses. Everyone knows how hard the staff works.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:59 pm

Larry Latham

goblok71 · Post by **goblok71** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:58 am

Hi. I've just been reading your discussion and have yet another "theory".

I always learnt that with collective nouns, if the group you are describing is acting as a whole, the verb is singular - e.g. the team works well together. However, if the group is acting individually, even though you are talking about the group, the verb is plural - e.g. the team were distracted by their own thoughts.

But in terms of how accurate i am, i don't know - I live in Australia, so i may have learnt it differently to both the American and British systems. Why can't we all speak the same English?

cheers.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:45 am

Ah, I can't say "The team were distracted by their own thoughts." I'd have to say "The team members were distracted by their own thoughts." or "The team was distracted."

mwert · Post by **mwert** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:47 am

I'm glad I opened this discussion although I had no idea it's a controversial issue.....Being a non- native English speaker I thought it's my "not good enough" English....Anyway, I always thought that the difference in American and British English is the pronounciation and some terms and expressions.It's the first time I come across grammatical difference.Any other grammar cases?
Thank you all

,
Michal

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:05 pm

Since I'm teaching adult immigrants to San Francisco for the most part (we have a few tourists thrown in every so often), I feel very comfortable teaching American English. However, I'm careful to explain that British English is "correct" English, and can be used here.

One difference I've noticed is questions in the simple present with the verb "have". Most American dialects use questions like:
"Do you have a book?" "Yes." "Yes, I do."
"Does he have a pencil?" "Yes." "Yes, he does."

It's my understanding (help please!) that British English uses:
"Have you a book?" "Yes." "Yes, I have."
"Has he a pencil?" "Yes." "Yes, he has."

I know there are also American dialects that do this, but it is not very common in this area.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:11 pm

Ah, if we all spoke the same English, where would be the fun in that? Vive la difference!

Larry Latham
(I make no claim to having knowledge of French. Please be gentle with me.

)

Joanne · Post by **Joanne** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:41 am

Lorikeet

We sometimes use 'does he have', but more common would be 'Has he got...?' Yes, he has. 'Has' on its own is unusually formal.

Re other differences, mwert, are Americans more flexible about past tense/present perfect? Have you had lunch yet? Did you have lunch yet? A Brit would only use the first, but I think the second is also fine for Americans. Yeah?

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singular or plural

singular or plural

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