Are the following sentences grammatically correct?
1. These uninteresting topics will hold back the students from learning English.
2. More supplementary resources will extend the variety of class activities.
Thanks,
William
Grammar Q's
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
I agree with what you said, but I don't know why. If "Pick up the book" and "Pick the book up" both sound acceptable, why does "Those uninteresting topics will hold the students back from learning English." sound better than "Those uninteresting topics will hold back the students from learning English?" Or do you think it's a different kind of grammar?
Re: Grammar Q's
"These uninteresting topics will hold them back from learning English."
If I use "them" instead of "the students", I will put the object in-between the phrasal verb. Maybe because I am a Chinese, so I can only check whether a sentence is grammatically correct, but I won't be entirely sure whether it sounds good enough.
William
If I use "them" instead of "the students", I will put the object in-between the phrasal verb. Maybe because I am a Chinese, so I can only check whether a sentence is grammatically correct, but I won't be entirely sure whether it sounds good enough.
William
William wrote in asking if it's grammatical:
Well, after thinking about it for some time, I think the awkwardness has to do with proximity, as dduck mentioned, but not the verb particle's proximity, but rather the verb's object, "the students".
Consider the ungrammaticallity of 'me' in:
A. These unintersting topics will hold back me from learning English.
Now let's look at the grammatical version:
B. These uninteresting topics will hold me back from learning English.
If we place 'me' after the verb 'hold', the sentence feels grammatical; however, if we place 'me' after the verb's particle (back), that is, if we separate the verb from its object ('me'), the sentence feels awkward.
Now look at this:
C. Please pick up the book.
D. Please pick the book up.
Both C. and D. are okay. But, when we change the verb's object to a being, as in
E. Please pick me up.
F. Please pick up me. (young children say this..)
the result (F.) is ungrammatical if the verb is separated from its object. Why that is, I dunno. It's just an observation, and moreover something native speakers seem to know intuitively given that fact that everyone, including me, wanted to move "the students" closer to the verb "hold".
All the best,
Cas
Lorikeet added:1. These uninteresting topics will hold back the students from learning English.
dduck added:"Those uninteresting topics will hold the students back from learning English" sounds better than "Those uninteresting topics will hold back the students from learning English?" Or do you think it's a different kind of grammar?
I think normal usage - in this case - separates the phrasal verb from its particle.
Well, after thinking about it for some time, I think the awkwardness has to do with proximity, as dduck mentioned, but not the verb particle's proximity, but rather the verb's object, "the students".
Consider the ungrammaticallity of 'me' in:
A. These unintersting topics will hold back me from learning English.
Now let's look at the grammatical version:
B. These uninteresting topics will hold me back from learning English.
If we place 'me' after the verb 'hold', the sentence feels grammatical; however, if we place 'me' after the verb's particle (back), that is, if we separate the verb from its object ('me'), the sentence feels awkward.
Now look at this:
C. Please pick up the book.
D. Please pick the book up.
Both C. and D. are okay. But, when we change the verb's object to a being, as in
E. Please pick me up.
F. Please pick up me. (young children say this..)
the result (F.) is ungrammatical if the verb is separated from its object. Why that is, I dunno. It's just an observation, and moreover something native speakers seem to know intuitively given that fact that everyone, including me, wanted to move "the students" closer to the verb "hold".
All the best,
Cas
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Neville & Nash
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phrasal verbs rules
When using phrasal verbs we have two option.
Ex. pick up
1.) you can put an object either between the verb and the preposition or at the end of the sentence. ex.
pick up the pen, or pick the pen up.
2) when using a pronoun it can only go in between the verb and the preposition.
ex. pick me up at five.
never can you say pick up me at five.
These are the rules when using phrasal verbs.
I hope it comes in handy to all.
Ex. pick up
1.) you can put an object either between the verb and the preposition or at the end of the sentence. ex.
pick up the pen, or pick the pen up.
2) when using a pronoun it can only go in between the verb and the preposition.
ex. pick me up at five.
never can you say pick up me at five.
These are the rules when using phrasal verbs.
I hope it comes in handy to all.
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LarryLatham
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- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
Maybe it's not that simple (as is frequently the case, isn't it?when using a pronoun it can only go in between the verb and the preposition.
ex. pick me up at five.
never can you say pick up me at five.
These are the rules when using phrasal verbs.
)I ran into him last night.
* I ran him into last night.
Larry Latham
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Stephen Jones
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Remember the distinction between phrasal and prepositional verbs.
A phrasal verb is a verb + an adverb
A prepositional verb is a verb plus a preposition.
Tne problem of course is that many prepositions like "up, in, down" can also be adverbs.
Prepositional verbs will always have the object after the preposition, because a preposition must be followed by a noun or a pronoun.
Phrasal verbs can have the object before or after the adverb. When the object is a pronoun it will always come before the adverb, as William correctly says.
With nouns as objects it is not quite so clear, but I think you will always be right if you put the noun before the adverb -the only problem being that you need to know that the adverb is not a prepostion:)
A phrasal verb is a verb + an adverb
A prepositional verb is a verb plus a preposition.
Tne problem of course is that many prepositions like "up, in, down" can also be adverbs.
Prepositional verbs will always have the object after the preposition, because a preposition must be followed by a noun or a pronoun.
Phrasal verbs can have the object before or after the adverb. When the object is a pronoun it will always come before the adverb, as William correctly says.
With nouns as objects it is not quite so clear, but I think you will always be right if you put the noun before the adverb -the only problem being that you need to know that the adverb is not a prepostion:)
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LarryLatham
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Prepositional Verbs
Wow, Stephen Jones, 
You have me there. I know there are gaps in my knowledge of English grammar, and I think you've found one of them. I confess I've never heard of a "prepositional verb." I believe, from observing some of your posts here, that you are a knowledgable participant, and so I hope you'll enlighten me (and most probably several other viewers).
It is my impression that parts of speech in general do not inhere in decontextulized words. For example, I cannot tell what part of speech label to attach to the word "boot" if it is not used in context. It might be a noun if I use it thus: "I think I'll buy some new boots." On the other hand, it might be a verb if I say: "We're going to boot him from the club." In addition, if I say, "You should boot up your computer.", it is my impression that the "up" after the word "boot" is not a preposition. If it were a preposition, it would combine with the noun phrase following to form a meaningful unit of English. However, "up your computer" does not work. So the "up" must be, as I understand things, a particle that goes together with "boot" to make a, what I have always called, phrasal verb: "boot up."
Can you show me where I'm going wrong here? Thanks. I would appreciate your expertise here.
Larry Latham
[/b]
You have me there. I know there are gaps in my knowledge of English grammar, and I think you've found one of them. I confess I've never heard of a "prepositional verb." I believe, from observing some of your posts here, that you are a knowledgable participant, and so I hope you'll enlighten me (and most probably several other viewers).
It is my impression that parts of speech in general do not inhere in decontextulized words. For example, I cannot tell what part of speech label to attach to the word "boot" if it is not used in context. It might be a noun if I use it thus: "I think I'll buy some new boots." On the other hand, it might be a verb if I say: "We're going to boot him from the club." In addition, if I say, "You should boot up your computer.", it is my impression that the "up" after the word "boot" is not a preposition. If it were a preposition, it would combine with the noun phrase following to form a meaningful unit of English. However, "up your computer" does not work. So the "up" must be, as I understand things, a particle that goes together with "boot" to make a, what I have always called, phrasal verb: "boot up."
Can you show me where I'm going wrong here? Thanks. I would appreciate your expertise here.
Larry Latham
[/b]As I understand it, a phrasal verb contains a verb with one or more particles. The particle can function as either an adverb or a preposition. It's easy to distinguish: if the phrasal verb has an object the particle functions as a preposition. Without an object the particle has an adverbial function. e.g.
They worked out their problems (out = preposition)
He threw up (up = adverb)
According to the books I've studied, both these examples are referred to as phrasal verbs.
Iain
They worked out their problems (out = preposition)
He threw up (up = adverb)
According to the books I've studied, both these examples are referred to as phrasal verbs.
Iain
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LarryLatham
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Thanks for your reply, Iain.
I understand what you said, but have to say I don't exactly understand the explaination.
They worked out their problems.
If "out" is a preposition here, then it needs an object immediately following. However, the phrase created by "out their problems" is not a meaningful unit of English. So, by my reckoning, "out" cannot be a preposition in this sentence. It has to be considered bonded to the verb, becomming in effect part of the verb so that the verb in the sentence is "worked out", a phrasal verb.
Similarly, if we consider: He threw up.
If we believe that "up" here is an adverb, then the sentence verb becomes "threw." But as I understand the sentence to mean, there is no throwing going on here in the normal sense of the word. What's happening is "throwing up", which is altogether different. The way I figure this sentence is that it contains a subject and an intransitive verb...period.
Where am I wrong?
Larry Latham
I understand what you said, but have to say I don't exactly understand the explaination.
They worked out their problems.
If "out" is a preposition here, then it needs an object immediately following. However, the phrase created by "out their problems" is not a meaningful unit of English. So, by my reckoning, "out" cannot be a preposition in this sentence. It has to be considered bonded to the verb, becomming in effect part of the verb so that the verb in the sentence is "worked out", a phrasal verb.
Similarly, if we consider: He threw up.
If we believe that "up" here is an adverb, then the sentence verb becomes "threw." But as I understand the sentence to mean, there is no throwing going on here in the normal sense of the word. What's happening is "throwing up", which is altogether different. The way I figure this sentence is that it contains a subject and an intransitive verb...period.
Where am I wrong?
Larry Latham
I had a quick scan in a few reference books:
The monkey flew into a rage.
monkey = noun
the monkey = noun phrase
flew = verb
rage = noun
a rage = noun phrase
into a rage = preposition phrase
flew into a rage = verb phrase
flew into = verbal phrase
Larry, I think you're the man! As they say in New York
Iain
The monkey flew into a rage.
monkey = noun
the monkey = noun phrase
flew = verb
rage = noun
a rage = noun phrase
into a rage = preposition phrase
flew into a rage = verb phrase
flew into = verbal phrase
Larry, I think you're the man! As they say in New York
Iain
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LarryLatham
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- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
...into a rage???
Thanks, Iain, for taking the time to look through your reference books.
How old are they? I do accept everything you found there except:
"flew"=verb (in this sentence)
"into a rage"=preposition phrase (in this sentence)
How can this be? If "flew"=verb and "into a rage"=the direct object of "flew", the sentence doesn't make sense. I am guessing the monkey didn't fly anywhere, let alone into some place called "rage." It seems to me that the verb is indeed a phrasal verb="flew into" which has quite a different meaning than "flew."
"flew into a rage." is, I agree, a verb phrase, and the head is "flew into."
"The monkey" indeed is a noun phrase and is the subject noun.
Am I getting mixed up here, or is the author of your reference book?
Larry Latham
P.S. I hope you're having a wonderful time in the big apple.
How old are they? I do accept everything you found there except:
"flew"=verb (in this sentence)
"into a rage"=preposition phrase (in this sentence)
How can this be? If "flew"=verb and "into a rage"=the direct object of "flew", the sentence doesn't make sense. I am guessing the monkey didn't fly anywhere, let alone into some place called "rage." It seems to me that the verb is indeed a phrasal verb="flew into" which has quite a different meaning than "flew."
"flew into a rage." is, I agree, a verb phrase, and the head is "flew into."
"The monkey" indeed is a noun phrase and is the subject noun.
Am I getting mixed up here, or is the author of your reference book?
Larry Latham
P.S. I hope you're having a wonderful time in the big apple.
Doh! I should have written that "fly into" is a phrasal verb, instead of a verbal phrase. I guess I was getting a bit snow blind.
You're correct to point out that the verb isn't flew, but flew into. As you point out, the monkeys don't fly
I imagine that you don't accept "into a rage" because into belongs to the verb and isn't functioning as a simple preposition. In that case I think we're back to the original question, and I have exhausted all my knowledge and intelligent guesses.
By the way, I've just started reading Stephen Pinker's "The Language Instinct". Very good read.
Iain
P.S. New York is awesome. I love the various cultures here.
You're correct to point out that the verb isn't flew, but flew into. As you point out, the monkeys don't fly
I imagine that you don't accept "into a rage" because into belongs to the verb and isn't functioning as a simple preposition. In that case I think we're back to the original question, and I have exhausted all my knowledge and intelligent guesses.
By the way, I've just started reading Stephen Pinker's "The Language Instinct". Very good read.
Iain
P.S. New York is awesome. I love the various cultures here.