Sheila seduces easily and willingly.

<b>Forum for the discussion of Applied Linguistics </b>

Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2

Post Reply
metal56
Posts: 3032
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:30 am

Sheila seduces easily and willingly.

Post by metal56 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:48 am

Sheila seduces easily and willingly.

Davidse , 1991, shows us that the above sentence can be interpreted as meaning either Sheila is the target of someone else's seducing or that she is the agent of seducing and does so easily and willingly.

She then goes on to say that when the adverbs are reversed, only the latter reading is possible:

Sheila seduces willingly and easily.

Personally, I can still see ambiguity in the reversed example. How about you?

lolwhites
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:12 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by lolwhites » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:34 pm

I can see the ambiguity in both examples, although when I first saw the phrase, the first interpretation to occur to me was with Sheila as the agent. The other strikes me as a little contrived, to be honest; if she was the target I'd expect to see Sheila is easily and willingly seduced.

I'm not saying such an interpretation is wrong, but I wouldn't bet on seeing it. Generally speakers and writers try to avoid ambiguity unless they have a good reason.

metal56
Posts: 3032
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:30 am

Post by metal56 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:53 pm

The other strikes me as a little contrived, to be honest; if she was the target I'd expect to see Sheila is easily and willingly seduced.
Yes, I agree. How about:

Bill offends easily.
Crystal vases shatter easily.

Contrived, or not?

metal56
Posts: 3032
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:30 am

Post by metal56 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:59 pm

metal56 wrote:
The other strikes me as a little contrived, to be honest; if she was the target I'd expect to see Sheila is easily and willingly seduced.
Yes, I agree. How about:

Bill offends easily.
Crystal vases shatter easily.
These shoes won't tie readily.

Contrived, or not?

lolwhites
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:12 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by lolwhites » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:08 pm

Bill offends easily. - potentially ambiguous, though I'd consider Bill is easily offended the more probable if he isn't the agent
Crystal vases shatter easily. - only ambiguous to smartasses - have you ever tried shattering something with a crystal vase?
These shoes won't tie readily. - Ditto - common sense dictates one interpretation.

lucy lace
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:56 am

Post by lucy lace » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:11 pm

metal56 wrote:
The other strikes me as a little contrived, to be honest; if she was the target I'd expect to see Sheila is easily and willingly seduced.
Yes, I agree. How about:

Bill offends easily.
Crystal vases shatter easily.

Contrived, or not?
Aren't these examples of middle voice? There are some verbs that lend themselves to middle voice better than others: verbs of tranforming state such as break, open, etc. The glass broke. The store opens at six.
Clearly, the glass didn't break itself, nor did the store open itself. I have no problem with the examples of Bill and the crystal vases.

However, in the example of "seduces", even though it can be construed as a verb of transformation, it is not as clearcut an example, and therefore sounds both contrived and ambiguous.

metal56
Posts: 3032
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:30 am

Post by metal56 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:10 pm

How about here, Lucy¿

"Wheat grows very well on this farm."

Is the focus on an innate quality of the wheat, on the skills of the grower, or on the quality of the land, the weather?
Last edited by metal56 on Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

lolwhites
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:12 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by lolwhites » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:47 am

metal56 wrote: "Wheat grows very well on this farm."

Is the focus on an innate quality of the wheat, on the skills grower, or on the quality of the land, the weather?
Well, on this farm would suggest it isn't some innate quality of the wheat, or you'd say something like This particular strain of wheat grows very well, while if it was the grower I'd expect Farmer Giles grows very good wheat, but as to whether it comes down to the quality of the land or climate (or both) is impossible to say as the sentence, without more context, simply doesn't provide enough relevant information.

metal56
Posts: 3032
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:30 am

Post by metal56 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:55 am

<while if it was the grower I'd expect Farmer Giles grows very good wheat, >

Or a stress on "this".

"Wheat grows well on this farm." Could be a put down of the skills of other farmers. No need to mention the agent there.

metal56
Posts: 3032
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:30 am

Post by metal56 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:58 pm

Here's another:

She doesn't frighten easily.

lolwhites
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:12 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by lolwhites » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:14 am

Again, it comes down to the fact that a person can frighten or be frightened. Swap she for that film and see the ambiguity resolved.

In any case, it's only ambiguous out of context. It's probably not an issue outside the classroom.

Post Reply