British dialects

[jedimasterbooboo]

Well, jotham interested me with his comment that a mid-west accent is considered neutral...

I was born in California, lived there until I was 8 then spent from 8 to 18 in the mid-west (Michigan). When I returned to California, everyone asked where I was from because I had an accent.

Now, I'm 36 and speak Californian, which doesn't have an accent unless you're a teenager (or still doing valley-speak from the 80's). California speak is the accent of tv and the movies, unless it's a regional drama in a certain location, southern, NY, or Fargo or something.

I certainly don't think that mid-west could be considered neutral. Especially around the Chicago area.

I don't know Jotham, I'd be careful about that assertion.

[metal56]

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I don't know Jotham, I'd be careful about that assertion.

I agree. Everyone speaks a dialect of some kind - even Jotham.

[JuanTwoThree]

I notice in the five dialect samples that lexis plays a relatively small part, though grammatical differences are considerable.

If there is no lexical or grammatical element at all, how useful is the term "dialect" for huge swathes of the US, cutting right across small communities, race, class etc? Most posters have promptly started to talk about American accents. Are there any lexical or grammatical features that distinguish Northern/Eastern American English (or whatever it's called) from Midland/Mid-West/General American English? Or is it only "accent"? Not that accents aren't interesting in themselves.

Generally I find that an accent on its own, when the other factors are not there, takes very little tuning in.

But I could say:

"Don't fash yourself hinny, Don't greet, my bonny"

cutting out "Dinna" and "thissen" and using my best RP and it's still more or less Geordie.

Resist the temptation to paste chunks of definitions of "accent" and "dialect" from online dictionaries. It's not clever and it's not useful.

[JuanTwoThree]

To answer my own question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_v ... an_English

very interesting

[metal56]

Resist the temptation to paste chunks of definitions of "accent" and "dialect" from online dictionaries. It's not clever and it's not useful.

I agree. Better to just accept that there are several definitions of those words.

[jotham]

I certainly don't think that mid-west could be considered neutral. Especially around the Chicago area. I don't know Jotham, I'd be careful about that assertion.

I try not to make stuff up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American

General American (sometimes called Standard Midwestern, Standard Spoken American English or American Broadcast English) is the accent of American English perceived by Americans to be most "neutral" and free of regional characteristics. The General American accent is not thought of as a linguistic standard in the sense that Received Pronunciation (RP) has historically been the standard, prestige variant in England, but its speakers are perceived as "accentless" by most Americans

I'm from Eastern Kansas. I think California would be considered midwestern as far as pronunciation goes. You might be able to tell a difference in some vocabulary discrepancies, but if we were to read the Gettysburg Address, you couldn't tell much difference just on pronunciation. The accents are starkest on the East Coast: it most closely resembles the variety of accents in the U.K. As people moved West, those accents just moderated, or petered out (since someone didn't like iron out).

[jotham]

then spent from 8 to 18 in the mid-west (Michigan). When I returned to California, everyone asked where I was from because I had an accent.

Wouldn't Michigan be close to a northern accent? I know Wisconsin and Minnesota are.

[Lorikeet]

I'm from Detroit originally, and have been living in California for almost 40 years. I remember we used to eat supper, while in California everyone eats dinner. We had a couch, but now I have a sofa. We used to drink pop. When my mother came to visit me in California once, she saw "soda" on the shopping list and thought it was baking soda, instead of the drink. That said, there aren't really too many lexical differences.

[jotham]

Yes, that sounds like the vocabulary I'm familiar with, but the pronunciation may be somewhat different. I looked at Wikipedia the other night, and they said there was a north and south division of Midwest accent, which might explain why Californians thought Jedimaster had an accent. When I lived in California for more than a year, or whenever I meet people from California, I don't notice any pronunciation differences, not like I notice in most people from Texas, Minnesota, or Wisconsin. I don't remember meeting many people from Michigan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English

West of the Appalachian Mountains begins the broad zone of what is generally called "Midland" speech. This is divided into two discrete subdivisions, the North Midland that begins north of the Ohio River valley area, and the South Midland speech

[jedimasterbooboo]

I agree with your responses Jotham. Michigan is called the mid-west, but when it comes down to accents, we sound Canadian!

I haven't heard Kansas-Speak. If it's like decent Cali-speak then we're in agreement.

Yes, and all that terminology. I remember having "soda" and "pop" difficulties when I moved back to California.

You know what tho? For the US being as huge as it is, you'd think that our language would vary more than it does. We're pretty cohesive. An English language learner doesn't have to learn regional pronunciations. We run into problems understanding people only when they don't speak clearly. There are people everywhere who don't speak clearly, and there are people who do. Having a short history is to blame for the cohesion, I'm sure.

[jotham]

I haven't heard Kansas-Speak

Well, it isn't all the same. I think a linguistic border cuts across the state. There is a Western Kansas accent that inches closer to the southern accent. At times, I revert into it in a meeting or classroom when I'm slightly irritated and want to talk sense about something — and probably because, growing up, I've witnessed and was deeply impressed or influenced by coaches, principals, or other figures who did the same in those circumstances. President Bush seems to me like someone who speaks this Western Kansas accent. He doesn't sound Texan to me — not deep Texas anyhow.

[Stephen Jones]

There are two British dialects that are so notoriously difficult for standard English speakers to understand that they have even resorted to sub-titling them.

They are Glaswegian and Geordie. Most Brits manage the others without too much difficulty, though different lexis has been a problem since before the 14th century (eggs and 'eyren').

Incidentally, has jotham forgotten that he posted earlier that Bill Cosby couldn't understand the dialect of those he heard when he went slumming for publicity purposes?

[jotham]

They are Glaswegian and Geordie

Are they related to Welsh or Celtic? Are there examples on the Internet?
I remember once, a hidden-camera joke was being played on Barbara Walters, and she was socializing with British aristocrats or elitists, and when they were talking to her, you could see the slight, politic bafflement on her face as she pretended to flow with it.

Incidentally, has jotham forgotten that he posted earlier that Bill Cosby couldn't understand the dialect of those he heard when he went slumming for publicity purposes?

He understands it. As a comedian and entertainer, he's exaggerating to make a point...a serious point — and his audience knows it.

[Stephen Jones]

Are they related to Welsh or Celtic?

No, Welsh and Irish accents are generally lilting and, with the possible exception of Northern Irish accents, are not too difficult to understand.

Geordie is the dialect of the North-East of England (I believe metal56 is a native speaker), and Glaswegian is, surprise, surprise, the dialect of Glasgow. Interestingly enough the dialect of Edimburgh, a hundred odd miles north of Geordieland and east of Glasgow, is one of the easiest versions of English to understand.

If you want to hear Glaswegian, Google for Billy Connally videos. Then compare the dialect to that of Maggie Smith in the 'Prime of Miss Jean Brodie' to see the difference between Glasgwegian and high-class Edinburgh speech (for lower class Edinburgh speech try 'Trainspotting').