Italians or the Italians?

[sheikh radlinrol]

Is there a difference between these two sentences?

I think Italians are so romantic.
I think the Italians are so romantic.

Off the top of my head I told the student that the first might be used to refer only to the Italians the speaker had met whereas in the second sentence the speaker was referring to all Italians. Later, I began to wonder if I had actually been talking out of a hole in my head rather than off the top of it.

[lolwhites]

If anything, I would say the opposite; the first sentence refers to Italians in general (i.e. all Italians) while the second could refer to all Italians, or a specific group of Italians depending on context.

In our class there are three Germans, two Koreans, four Italians and a Saudi. The Germans are punctual, the Koreans are quiet, the Italians are romantic and the Saudi is friendly.

[sheikh radlinrol]

Thanks for the reply, which makes sense.

[Miss Elenious]

"We use the + nationality adjective ending in -ese or -ish with a plural verb, to refer to all people of that nationality:

The Chinese are very hard-working.
The Spanish often go to sleep in the afternoon."

check out the following link

http://www.edufind.com/english/grammar/NOUNS6.cfm

Is there such a thing as a Britisher? I've never come across it.

[lolwhites]

We use the + nationality adjective ending in -ese or -ish with a plural verb, to refer to all people of that nationality

But the+nationality doesn't always refer to "all people of that nationality". The examples you give could refer to all Chinese and all Spanish, or to a specific group depending on context. The "rule" above is a massive oversimplification.

[metal56]

Is there a difference between these two sentences?

I think Italians are so romantic.
I think the Italians are so romantic.

Off the top of my head I told the student that the first might be used to refer only to the Italians the speaker had met whereas in the second sentence the speaker was referring to all Italians. Later, I began to wonder if I had actually been talking out of a hole in my head rather than off the top of it.

I'd say "Italians" has in mind individuals, even though they may not be specific ones that the speaker has met, and "the Italians" refers to the nationality group as a whole.

[metal56]

In our class there are three Germans, two Koreans, four Italians and a Saudi. The Germans are punctual, the Koreans are quiet, the Italians are romantic and the Saudi is friendly.

Hmm. And what about:

The Germans are normally (a) punctual people, but the Germans in our class always late.

[lolwhites]

mm. And what about:

The Germans are normally (a) punctual people, but the Germans in our class always late.

No problem; the first refers to all Germans, the second to a specific subset. I would agree that when one refers to all Germans as the Germans, they are probably thinking of them as a "whole" while Germans evokes a group composed of individuals. But the source Miss Elenious was quoting seemed to suggest that the + nationality always means everyone of that nationality, which is not the case.