will vs. be going to

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LarryLatham
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Post by LarryLatham » Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:04 am

Alexanndra, the sun may rise tomorrow for you and most people, but perhaps not for me. Who knows? I may be dead by morning. :wink: Although I'll admit, the rising sun is a pretty sure thing, we all know that just because something has happened several billion times in the past is not necessarily a guarantee that it will happen in the future. I think I remember a biblical story that leaves some doubt about the inevitibility of the sun's movement, if you believe in such things, and if you've ever invested in the stock market, you'll be familiar with the disclaimer the brokers always put in their brochures. The point we all have to remember is that language is chosen by the speaker. He has to have some reason for choosing what he does. If your speaker here looks at the situation of the sun rising and analyzes it as an event he believes, on the basis of his prior experience, is a good bet...but also feels the need to acknowledge that he cannot predict with certainty what the future will bring, he will say: "The sun will rise tomorrow." And, if your speaker says, "The sun is going to rise tomorrow.", I'd have to suggest that means he believes he has evidence of that event arising as he speaks. Again, :wink: ...Perhaps it is more likely that he might say, "The sun is going to rise in a few minutes." That's more likely because he sees the faint glow of light in the eastern sky.

Szwagier, I'm not sure why you have pointed to the will in, "I will this to happen." Surely there can be no confusion here. These wills are just not the same!!! :shock:

Larry Latham

szwagier
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Post by szwagier » Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:25 pm

The two 'will's aren't exactly the same, but I've felt since reading "English Verb" that there is some relationship between "I will do my homework" and "I will this homework to be done". There's some personal force and determination there that's common to both.

The ground is obviously much shakier when I try to apply this determination to inanimate objects such as the Sun, and I'm not enough of a philosopher or psychologist to make a good argument for it. But don't you think it feels right?

LarryLatham
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Post by LarryLatham » Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:42 pm

Well, um...I read the same The English Verb as you did, but by my reading I don't get the same sensation from

They'll surely be asleep by now.

or

Bob and Mary will go to the dance Saturday night.

or even

You will do your homework before you watch TV.

as I do from

He wills his wife to cook his favorite dishes.

I don't know...maybe I skipped over that part. :? :) I think the difference is that (will) in the first three examples is an auxiliary and in the fourth it's a verb. Different animal, different meaning. Nevertheless, your suggestion that the full stressed use of 'will' (as in the third example here) as an auxiliary carries a personal force with it is certainly on target. So, although I agree that you're on shaky ground, you do have some grounds for your assertion. :)

Larry Latham

dduck
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Post by dduck » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:49 am

Taken from Websters:

Etymology: Middle English (1st & 3d sing. present indic.), from Old English wille (infinitive wyllan); akin to Old High German wili (3d singular present indicative) wills, Latin velle to wish, will
Date: before 12th century

English wills have a common etymology.

I mentioned earlier that I suspected, English will comes from German and Dutch (a dialect of German with an army).

(Note, ik = I, jij = you third person singluar, informal. u is the formal pronoun)

ik zal werken = I will work or I shall work
ik ga slapen = I am going to sleep or I go to sleep
ik wil zingen = I want to sing
Wat wil jij leren? = What do you want to learn?

The last example is not far removed from our "What will you learn?"

Iain

szwagier
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Post by szwagier » Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:52 pm

Many thanks for the etymological support, Iain. :D

Lost in the mists of time, I studied German at school. Perhaps that's where my intuition about wills stems from?

Of course, the fact that what are currently two different words have a common etymology doesn't necessarily mean they're still similar, but I am willing, and :wink: will will there to be a common semantic thread - even though the form and usage of the two words are now different.

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