Teaching Present Simple and Present Cont. to Germans

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:36 am

JuanTwoThree wrote:
rblajev, is that:

"I have just begun teaching, in Germany"

or

"I have just begun teaching in Germany though I've taught elsewhere"?

bcause if it's the second then I'd find out about German and leave it at that.

If it's the first, then don't sweat. We've all been there and find ourselves there again from time to time. I'm sure my students learnt English but despite my efforts for the first few months

Hi,

thanks for the enouragement! It was so disheartening to see them look at me like, 'and you're the teacher????'. Well, it is a bit of both. I have just started here in Germany to teach Business English. In college I tutored one-on-one, but it usually didn't extend to complex grammar.

I've been in Germany four months and this course that went so badly is my first group and it was our second meeting. The first one I was late to because the platform to catch my train had been changed from the directions I printed out and I barely missed it. I had left early, so that would have been fine, but then the person I asked at the bus stop how to get to the street sent me the wrong direction.

So, the first time that happened and the second time I was early but then couldn't explain this!

Third time's the charm, right??

At least I had a one-on-one course the next day that I really enjoyed. It went really well and I felt my old thrill of doing this from the tutoring.

Thanks everyone!

ouyang · Post by **ouyang** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:03 am

"To feel" is a stative verb, but I was referring to "like, want, and need" as examples of verbs that aren't normally used with the continuous aspect. Temporary states, in expressions like "he's being silly" will use the continuous aspect.

Feelings are by nature temporary. If people are prone to changing their minds, we might also say "Now, they're wanting to go to a different restaurant". In some contexts we might say, "You'll be needing a new car if you keep driving like that".

My idea was that you should make a point of excluding stative verbs when designing lesson plans about the continuous aspect. If a student forms the continuous participle on their own inappropriately, you need to correct them. I wouldn't give any explanation to a beginner student for the correction. I might just give a couple of other examples of continuous verb phrases that we don't use.

With pre-intermediate, you can explain that the verb describes a relationship or a state rather than an action, so the simple present already conveys a continuation. You don't have to use the term "stative".

-good luck

Macavity · Post by **Macavity** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:03 pm

No, not really any more confusing than it is anyway. Try reducing the name of the form to “ing form” and look at ways in which the present progressive is used. Later, when you’re ready to introduce the past progressive or perfect progressive forms, etc., you can look at other uses of the “ing form”.

Sometimes it works well to look at the simple and progressive present forms together, comparing and contrasting. But this can also lead to a great deal of confusion – for both the students and teacher. It’s often better to take them forward one at a time after they’ve been introduced, returning now and then to points of comparison.

I can only say that this is an area where you are likely to make rather slow progress in Germany. Once the students are aware of some of the main functions of the progressive form(s), you are almost certain to get a lot of over usage. They tend to think that they have to use it for everything that isn’t “nailed down”. I’ve been teaching in Augsburg for knapp 5 years and this still keeps me busy.

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:16 pm

Thanks, Macavity,

I had to laugh out loud at your description of the German tendency to overdo it. It helps me to know that this is a complex issue for them, because they will have to know that so that both they and I do not get too discouraged.

I think and hope I have a handle on it for tomorrow, but if it continues to be an utter failure I will approach it in the way you suggested. The book they are required to use has the two tenses at the same time. I don't want to deviate from the book's order unless I have to.

Five years, hmm? Thank you so much for your feedback. It is great to hear from all of the teachers here, but definitely it helps to hear from someone who has worked with Germans specifically.

Have a good night!

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:38 pm

Of course by far the most common use of the Present Continuous is to describe the future.

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:43 am

Thanks, everyone, today's course went much better. Though the students may not have totally mastered the concept, they did reach a higher level of understanding.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Maybe the problem is just that new teachers sometimes expect a lot. Grasping a concept is one thing, using forms correctly takes a lot of time and effort.

If the tense wars are starting up again, I'd like to get my retaliation in first and note that my two year old son uses the present continuous to talk about the present a good 100% of the time. Since I have few people to talk to but him and very small Koreans, I'm not much of a one for the future plans either.

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:19 am

woodcutter wrote:Maybe the problem is just that new teachers sometimes expect a lot. Grasping a concept is one thing, using forms correctly takes a lot of time and effort.

If the tense wars are starting up again, I'd like to get my retaliation in first and note that my two year old son uses the present continuous to talk about the present a good 100% of the time. Since I have few people to talk to but him and very small Koreans, I'm not much of a one for the future plans either.

Hello Woodcutter,

I would like to say that I did not 'expect a lot'. I did not expect the class to use it perfectly or to understand it all. However, I did want some advise about how to do my job...i.e., explain it to them in a way that will at least make more sense at the end of the class than at the beginning. As you say, to grasp the concept.

The next session I taught, my goal was achieved: the students came out of the meeting knowing a bit more and at least having gained a bit clearer understanding of the logic used behind the usage. Can they employ it correctly always? Probably not. But, they learned something.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:06 am

Basically, I think an introduction to the concept shouldn't go any deeper than ing=now whereas present simple = again+again+again. Easy to teach, easy to learn, easy to practice.

If the students try and push you much beyond that, it's bad luck. It won't do them any good at that stage, and it will probably be a too-advanced-for-the-class student doing it. The best policy is to minimize your response, or just brush it away as kindly and invisibly as possible. If the problem revolves around usage of "stative verbs" then that is quite a minefield, and a part of English which I suspect is in great flux. So, unless they are at the right level, avoid it. If you do have to get into it, anyway, the basic mantra you have taught will go a long way (and if that is the problem, by the way, it probably would have been better to use stative verbs in the thread title really). Anyway, surely, Germans of all people should not be encouraged to start probing the logic of all our statements.

I guess that isn't the kind of policy that appeals to you, and it's perhaps the direct opposite of what many teachers here will tell you, because they seem to suffer from the delusion that learning language is to a large degree a kind of logical problem. Well, that's one reason why being an experienced teacher isn't as important as some people make out. Experienced teacher A and experienced teacher B will not necessarily do the same things - in fact they may differ to a great extent.

So, even if you don't like my posts, at least I'm telling you that you needn't think that you aren't doing a better than average job, even without much experience. That isn't necessarily the case. From A.Davesposter's point of view, you may be much better than me, for example.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:37 pm

woodcutter wrote:Basically, I think an introduction to the concept shouldn't go any deeper than ing=now whereas present simple = again+again+again. Easy to teach, easy to learn, easy to practice.

But the only time you get to hear things like "I like bananas. I like bananas. I like bananas (*/?I'm liking bananas (x3??!!))" is on my "Back to Basics" thread.

If the students try and push you much beyond that, it's bad luck. It won't do them any good at that stage, and it will probably be a too-advanced-for-the-class student doing it. The best policy is to minimize your response, or just brush it away as kindly and invisibly as possible. If the problem revolves around usage of "stative verbs" then that is quite a minefield, and a part of English which I suspect is in great flux. So, unless they are at the right level, avoid it. If you do have to get into it, anyway, the basic mantra you have taught will go a long way (and if that is the problem, by the way, it probably would have been better to use stative verbs in the thread title really). Anyway, surely, Germans of all people should not be encouraged to start probing the logic of all our statements.

Yup, half the battle is avoiding the temptation to agree to start lecturing, as if "explaining" makes things easier (easier for whom! Lewis - again Lewis! - made this point).

I guess that isn't the kind of policy that appeals to you, and it's perhaps the direct opposite of what many teachers here will tell you, because they seem to suffer from the delusion that learning language is to a large degree a kind of logical problem. Well, that's one reason why being an experienced teacher isn't as important as some people make out. Experienced teacher A and experienced teacher B will not necessarily do the same things - in fact they may differ to a great extent.

I really agree that these forums can appear to overchampion (new verb?

) logical, "wide-ranging" analysis; that being said, a teacher who ultimately has little or no logical basis for teaching items A B C, as opposed to items D through K (and potentially on until Z), will probably not be selecting things that make truly maximal sense or stand up as a coherent whole to closer scrutiny. Anyway, back to that tumble dryer!

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:12 pm

woodcutter wrote:Basically, I think an introduction to the concept shouldn't go any deeper than ing=now whereas present simple = again+again+again. Easy to teach, easy to learn, easy to practice.

If the students try and push you much beyond that, it's bad luck. It won't do them any good at that stage, and it will probably be a too-advanced-for-the-class student doing it. The best policy is to minimize your response, or just brush it away as kindly and invisibly as possible. If the problem revolves around usage of "stative verbs" then that is quite a minefield, and a part of English which I suspect is in great flux. So, unless they are at the right level, avoid it. If you do have to get into it, anyway, the basic mantra you have taught will go a long way (and if that is the problem, by the way, it probably would have been better to use stative verbs in the thread title really). Anyway, surely, Germans of all people should not be encouraged to start probing the logic of all our statements.

I guess that isn't the kind of policy that appeals to you, and it's perhaps the direct opposite of what many teachers here will tell you, because they seem to suffer from the delusion that learning language is to a large degree a kind of logical problem. Well, that's one reason why being an experienced teacher isn't as important as some people make out. Experienced teacher A and experienced teacher B will not necessarily do the same things - in fact they may differ to a great extent.

So, even if you don't like my posts, at least I'm telling you that you needn't think that you aren't doing a better than average job, even without much experience. That isn't necessarily the case. From A.Davesposter's point of view, you may be much better than me, for example.

Thank you, Woodcutter. I recognize your good intentions, though we may disagree on a few points.

I think the issue has been resolved for me here and really there is no longer a need for debate.

Merry Christmas.