Why is this sentence wrong?

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:09 pm

Again, I'm curious why you think that. I would rather say that all learners keep things as monosyllabic as possible, as a general rule. I don't think you could attribute the mistake to a "cram all my words in" mentality exactly - though I suppose it might stem from an urge to be idiomatic without having fully mastered idioms, which is a bit of a Chinese thing, perhaps, cos they have so many set phrases in Chinese, perhaps.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:17 pm

Oh no! 'I considered the lake (to be) clean' could well be another way that our hapless student might (want to?!) put things!

To add just one more of my crusty tuppennies to "clearing up" the ink spill now threatening this once pristine lake, I reckon that 'clean' means something like 'eas(il)y', hence 'I found the lake eas(il)y'.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:30 am

I agree (that limiting the S is probably not the best approach; and that they might actually be trying to express something that a simpler structure doesn't quite get to). Perhaps more helpful to show the Ss how they can use each variation to express themselves more accurately, than to reduce them to using only a single pattern.

So, where possible, can we explain the semantic differences in between the following?

1) "It was a nice, clean lake."
2) "The lake was clean."
3) "I found the lake clean."
4) "I found the lake to be clean."
5) "I found out the lake was clean."

Below are my initial thoughts, very roughly.
Not supposed to be written using any particular approach (but probably influenced by the way I prepare concept-checking questions when preparing a lesson).
Understanding that context could dramatically change any of these - but wanting to give the S some indication of how each can be used to express more subtle variations in meaning.

1) I expected the lake to be clean. I didn't expect it to be very clean. It was very clean. Because of this, it was nice.
2) I expected the lake to be clean. The lake was clean.
3) More than one person went to the lake. Someone else thought the lake wasn't clean. I thought the lake was clean.
4) The lake needed to be tested/examined, to see if it was clean or dirty. I tested/examined it. It was clean.
5) I expected the lake to be dirty. I didn't plan to check. Somehow, I did see/notice it. It was clean.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:11 am

The problem is that your 3) and 4) sound like a slightly pompous inspector from "The Good Lake Guide".

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:28 pm

Does The Good Lake Guide tell you how many brown trout there are likely to be in any given lake, JTT? If so, it's an essential purchase for true freshwater enthusiasts.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:43 am

I dunno... maybe 4. But I can easily imagine something along the lines of this in an informal chat between friends:

(A & B went to the lake; C didn't; they're all friends)

C: So, how was it?
A: Not that great actually. The camp site was alright, but when we went for a swim, it turned out the lake was a bit mucky. Not nice.
C: Yeah?
B: Nah, not really... I found the lake clean. ...

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:40 am

You may be right. I'll concede that your friend B is an off-duty inspector for the "Good Lakes Guide" who is not a bit pompous. Well, slightly.

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Why is this sentence wrong?

Expressing themselves

Pomposity