will have finished + yesterday

[Duncan Powrie]

Hi metal, when I say Lewis's examples leave something to be desired, of course that is just my subjective opinion, based upon what he says in his books (I have not been lucky enough to attent any IATEFL conferences so far) - I mean simply that they leave something to be desired to me. I am British, and his examples reek as being those of an educated Englishman, drawn from his own idiolect no doubt. I don't think they can be taken to be representative of all native-speakers, and certainly not of all the other varieties we might find. But I am not trying to say that Lewis is as "unrepentant" as, say, Carter or McCarthy are when challenged about working with e.g. CANCODE data.

I do of course think for myself...but I am a slow thinker and not exactly a genius, so I hope you'll excuse me if I sit out/withdraw from or choose to not fully partcipate in many of the edifying debates that rage within these threads. I really try not to get drawn into any mud-slinging, anyway - I'm scared some might stick, and not to my "opponents"! But here's a good line (from an amazing karate-ka): What size shoe does your mouth take?

[metal56]

Hi metal, when I say Lewis's examples leave something to be desired, of course that is just my subjective opinion, based upon what he says in his books (I have not been lucky enough to attent any IATEFL conferences so far) - I mean simply that they leave something to be desired to me. I am British, and his examples reek as being those of an educated Englishman, drawn from his own idiolect no doubt. I don't think they can be taken to be representative of all native-speakers, and certainly not of all the other varieties we might find. But I am not trying to say that Lewis is as "unrepentant" as, say, Carter or McCarthy are when challenged about working with e.g. CANCODE data.

I do of course think for myself...but I am a slow thinker and not exactly a genius, so I hope you'll excuse me if I sit out/withdraw from or choose to not fully partcipate in many of the edifying debates that rage within these threads. I really try not to get drawn into any mud-slinging, anyway - I'm scared some might stick, and not to my "opponents"! But here's a good line (from an amazing karate-ka): What size shoe does your mouth take?

I mean simply that they leave something to be desired to me. I am British, and his examples reek as being those of an educated Englishman, drawn from his own idiolect no doubt.

And what have you got against educated Englishmen? Will it not be necessary for learners to also communicate with that group?

I am British, and his examples reek as being those of..

LOL! That construction sounds rather educated to me, Duncan.

I don't think they can be taken to be representative of all native-speakers,

Can anything? Is this native:

WINING & DINING (or in the pub)

'Alehouse' - Public House
'Bevey' - Alcoholic beveridge
'Eees/shes paralitic - He/She is very drunk
'Ave gorra gob like an arabs flip flop' - I'm very thirsty
'Gerrim in' - Will you please got to the bar and get a round (each person within the group) of drinks in
'Bladdered' - Very drunk
'Am goin for a Jeff' - I'm going the toilet to urinate
'Scram' - Food
'Butty' - Sandwich
'Chippy' - Takeaway selling selection foods including chipped potatoes


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so I hope you'll excuse me if I sit out/withdraw from or choose to not fully partcipate in many of the edifying debates that rage within these threads

Your choice of course.

[Duncan Powrie]

Hi metal, you will recall that all I was wanting to do on this thread (before SOMEBODY started something) was ask Prawn about a few references.

In the process, I had to dodge incoming and outgoing flak, and made the mistake of pausing to take in the two combatants (and who could miss 'em?!). I know I shouldn't've got involved at all, but I could kind of see each of them had a point to make, and said as much before getting the hell out of there before it went thermonuclear.

But this being Dave's, threads never seem to go in the direction you're anticipating, and now I find myself on the end of your "humour" for being perhaps a little glib about this Lewis guy (whoever the hell he is, can't you tell I just love namedropping?!). I mean, shoot me or give me a brain transplant, and it may say more about my limitations as a reader than his as a writer, but I do not often come away with much more than vague terminology from "The English Verb"...so all I am trying to say is that perhaps SFL/G books will provide us (as active readers?) with more practise in APPLYING (perhaps better, very functional?) descriptions!

So, to return to where this thread seemed headed before I or anyone else opened their big mouths, is SFG, in your opinion, worth getting into?

P.S. Of course some learners may have a need to communicate with educated Brits, or Americans, or who(m)ever...but I would hope that they at least will be excused if they haven't read up on their Lewis, good examples or nay! I hope you'll also excuse me if I use relatively fancy phrasing from time to time. By the way, are those c*ckney fingies drawn from Lewis's "Out And About" (I THINK that was the title) or similar?

[LarryLatham]

Larry Latham

[metal56]

By the way, are those c*ckney fingies drawn from Lewis's "Out And About" (I THINK that was the title) or similar?

Shame on yer Dunk, that's Scouse, that is.

[woodcutter]

Settle down at the back!

Now then, I'd just like to say that I went away and wrestled with this "will" for a long time, and decided that in plain English, a "prediction that you feel sure of" would be the best description, since, for one thing:

"I think he will have finished yesterday" is fine while
"I think I'm certain he finished yesterday" clangs due to contradiction.

So why make a fuss about a "modal of certainty"? Then I re-read it all again and found Stephen had said everything important already in words that were too clever for me.

[Duncan Powrie]

Oh yeah, sh*te they are scouse innit!

You know, the reason I labelled them as c*ckney was because my old man was a scouser, so growing up I acquired that vocab, but was kind of forgetting exactly from whom; that is, I walked around saying those kind of things sometimes, and seem to "remember" my pals in London saying the same kind of stuff.

Probably they didn't...but maybe the N-S regional dialect divide isn't so wide that it wasn't just me or me dad what used them, like.