tips for teaching English to Spanish speakers
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Alexanndra
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:33 am
- Location: Mexico City, Mexico
tips for teaching English to Spanish speakers
Someone here had a really simple, helpful "tip" to get Spanish speakers to quit agonizing over do/does in questions. They said something like "tell them to think of the do/does as the ¿ in Spanish". Does anyone have any other tips of this type? For example, is there any way to get them to dissasociate the gerund from the present participle "iendo, ando"? They hate sentences like " I like playing soccer"...because they interpret that as "Me gusta jugando futbol" which would be incorrect in Spanish. I guess this is why translating is not a good way to learn a language! Anyway, any tips especially helpful to Spanish speakers would be appreciated!
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JuanTwoThree
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:30 am
- Location: Spain
So that everybody can follow my burblings it's worth pointing out that "nadar" means to swim/swimming/ swim depending on context.
Although I don't think there's an easy answer to this, if you must go down the translation route then three things occur to me:
I'm fairly sure that " verbo + haber hecho" always equals "verb + having done" which more or less equals "verb + doing". For example there are verbs like "negar haber hecho ( deny having done/doing)" or "recordar haber hecho (remember having done/doing)" . Of course there are loads more ings than these but at least there's one rule to be getting on with.
French and Spanish seem to be prone to making up -ing forms to describe newish sports: "puenting" for bungee-jumping or "footing" for jogging, so they are in fact aware that somehow the -ing refers to an activity and a noun. So when "Me encanta leer" means "Me encanta la lectura" then it's presumably "I love reading" whereas when "Quiero leer" doesn't work as "Quiero la lectura" it's safe to go for "I want to read".
By no means disconnected is that students often get the idea that there's a time to say "it" as substitution and a time to say "to" as ellipsis, although they make mistakes in the full forms. I mean a sort of drill:
"Do you enjoy studying"
"No, I hate it"
"What"
"Studying"
Or
"Do you want to come with me"
"Yes, I'd love to"
In other words:
Do you come here because you need ... because you want .... or because you enjoy ..... Or do your parents/bosses make you ....
Revel! Help!
Although I don't think there's an easy answer to this, if you must go down the translation route then three things occur to me:
I'm fairly sure that " verbo + haber hecho" always equals "verb + having done" which more or less equals "verb + doing". For example there are verbs like "negar haber hecho ( deny having done/doing)" or "recordar haber hecho (remember having done/doing)" . Of course there are loads more ings than these but at least there's one rule to be getting on with.
French and Spanish seem to be prone to making up -ing forms to describe newish sports: "puenting" for bungee-jumping or "footing" for jogging, so they are in fact aware that somehow the -ing refers to an activity and a noun. So when "Me encanta leer" means "Me encanta la lectura" then it's presumably "I love reading" whereas when "Quiero leer" doesn't work as "Quiero la lectura" it's safe to go for "I want to read".
By no means disconnected is that students often get the idea that there's a time to say "it" as substitution and a time to say "to" as ellipsis, although they make mistakes in the full forms. I mean a sort of drill:
"Do you enjoy studying"
"No, I hate it"
"What"
"Studying"
Or
"Do you want to come with me"
"Yes, I'd love to"
In other words:
Do you come here because you need ... because you want .... or because you enjoy ..... Or do your parents/bosses make you ....
Revel! Help!
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Alexanndra
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:33 am
- Location: Mexico City, Mexico
Gerund vs Infinitive
Morning all!
My new work schedule forces me to be brief and more concise than I'd rather be, which may lead to a dryness in my tone which should not be misinterpreted....(disclaimer #4589-q)
In my experience in Spain, the Gerund vs Infinitive problem that students experience comes from the misuse of terms in their school EFL classes, taught mostly by English Filology graduates and almost never by native teachers (who misuse terms as well). Students are told that the "base form" of a verb is an infinitive, and that the infinitive is the infinitive + "to", so they have two "infinitives" to deal with, though each of these forms is used in particular constructions and are not often interchangable. On the other side of the coin, they are not told that there is a difference between the present participle "ing" form in a verb construction like the continuous (or progressive) and the gerund noun-form of a verb, they are both referred to as "gerunds". A nice example where terminology creates interferences.
Juan's babblings are not babblings but rather good, firm advice. As often as one explains the rule "adverbs of frequency go before the verb they modify, except the verb 'be'", until the student has practiced this rule sufficiently to get the right feeling for the right word order, they will continue to put the adverb of frequency wherever they can while thinking about other parts of the sentence. Juan's suggestion here is excellent, as it removes the problem from the Spanish translation of the sentence and couches it in an English interpretation. May seem complex, but it is very important that students learn to stop filtering English through their own native language as soon as possible. It's not that a Spanish speaker wants to say Me gusta nadar and then develops the sentence "I like swimming" or "I like to swim", but rather that the student begins thinking that they would like to say "I like to swim" or "I like swimming" and then says it in either of the acceptable ways. It's not "thinking in English" but rather "thinking as an English speaker would" and a Native English speaker would not think of the sentence first in some other language but would rather think of it in English.
As an introduction to the grand differences between English and Spanish, as a way to begin helping Spanish students to leave their L1 to one side when using English, one only has to ask the meaning of the verb "be", and expand on the ser/estar definition that is always readily given. "I am 45" in Spanish is done with tener. "There is/are" is done with haber. "It's hot today" is done with hacer. "You see?" you say to students, "the two languages are different and we're here not to compare them, not to translate one to the other, but rather to learn the peculiarities of English."
peace,
revel.
My new work schedule forces me to be brief and more concise than I'd rather be, which may lead to a dryness in my tone which should not be misinterpreted....(disclaimer #4589-q)
In my experience in Spain, the Gerund vs Infinitive problem that students experience comes from the misuse of terms in their school EFL classes, taught mostly by English Filology graduates and almost never by native teachers (who misuse terms as well). Students are told that the "base form" of a verb is an infinitive, and that the infinitive is the infinitive + "to", so they have two "infinitives" to deal with, though each of these forms is used in particular constructions and are not often interchangable. On the other side of the coin, they are not told that there is a difference between the present participle "ing" form in a verb construction like the continuous (or progressive) and the gerund noun-form of a verb, they are both referred to as "gerunds". A nice example where terminology creates interferences.
Juan's babblings are not babblings but rather good, firm advice. As often as one explains the rule "adverbs of frequency go before the verb they modify, except the verb 'be'", until the student has practiced this rule sufficiently to get the right feeling for the right word order, they will continue to put the adverb of frequency wherever they can while thinking about other parts of the sentence. Juan's suggestion here is excellent, as it removes the problem from the Spanish translation of the sentence and couches it in an English interpretation. May seem complex, but it is very important that students learn to stop filtering English through their own native language as soon as possible. It's not that a Spanish speaker wants to say Me gusta nadar and then develops the sentence "I like swimming" or "I like to swim", but rather that the student begins thinking that they would like to say "I like to swim" or "I like swimming" and then says it in either of the acceptable ways. It's not "thinking in English" but rather "thinking as an English speaker would" and a Native English speaker would not think of the sentence first in some other language but would rather think of it in English.
As an introduction to the grand differences between English and Spanish, as a way to begin helping Spanish students to leave their L1 to one side when using English, one only has to ask the meaning of the verb "be", and expand on the ser/estar definition that is always readily given. "I am 45" in Spanish is done with tener. "There is/are" is done with haber. "It's hot today" is done with hacer. "You see?" you say to students, "the two languages are different and we're here not to compare them, not to translate one to the other, but rather to learn the peculiarities of English."
peace,
revel.
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Alexanndra
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:33 am
- Location: Mexico City, Mexico
Revel,
Gosh, I tried reading his message again, and I STILL don't get most of it! Oh well, I'll have to keep hanging out with you guys until I get smarter!
I love it, Revel. I had never thought of that fantastic example.
Thanks!
Alexanndra
I think this will be a good place to start, because I'm sure they don't distinguish between a pesent participle and a gerund.On the other side of the coin, they are not told that there is a difference between the present participle "ing" form in a verb construction like the continuous (or progressive) and the gerund noun-form of a verb, they are both referred to as "gerunds". A nice example where terminology creates interferences.
Juan's babblings are not babblings but rather good, firm advice.
Gosh, I tried reading his message again, and I STILL don't get most of it! Oh well, I'll have to keep hanging out with you guys until I get smarter!
As an introduction to the grand differences between English and Spanish, as a way to begin helping Spanish students to leave their L1 to one side when using English, one only has to ask the meaning of the verb "be", and expand on the ser/estar definition that is always readily given. "I am 45" in Spanish is done with tener. "There is/are" is done with haber. "It's hot today" is done with hacer. "You see?" you say to students, "the two languages are different and we're here not to compare them, not to translate one to the other, but rather to learn the peculiarities of English.
I love it, Revel. I had never thought of that fantastic example.
Thanks!
Alexanndra
Two birds, one stone
Hey Alexanndra, and Juan!
I'm glad I can be of help to you, Alexanndra. Here's a bit more.
Another area where Spanish and English differ significantly is in the organization of the personal pronouns. One of the problems that would have to be confronted in Juan's suggestion of using a drill that substitutes the gerund with "it" is that there is no clear, accurate translation of that pronoun into Spanish. Thus, creating a drill in which a short list of verbs that are usually followed by the gerund are then transformed into the pronoun would take care of two birds with one stone; that is, students will get into the habit of using the gerund as well as practice the use of the pronoun "it" to replace "the act of" whatever verb has been made noun.
I enjoy swimming. What do you enjoy? Swimming. Do you enjoy swimming? Yes, I enjoy it.
I considered learning English. What did you consider doing? Learning English. Did you consider learning English? Yes, I considered it.
(for a longer list of verbs useful in the contrast between gerund and the infinitive use, see a thread called something like "Looking for Gerunds", or maybe it was one of the "Venn diagram" threads where I posted several.)
Getting back to the personal pronouns, though, as I said, they are grouped in different ways in English than in Spanish. Where in Spanish they can be totally avoided, as the verb reflects person as well as time or mode, in English they must be used unless we are naming the subject of our utterance. Also, in Spanish they can be placed in two columns, one titled "singular" and the other "plural", based on numbers, while in English they ought to be grouped as "I, you, we, they" (which share the use of the root form in the simple present) and "he, she, it" (which carry that obligatory "s" in the simple present). Once the simple present has been waded through, the concept of "singular" and "plural" depends on the context, in the case of "you" and on the meaning of the personal pronoun in all other cases.
Even parralel structures, such as the present continuous or the present perfect are not used in the same way in both languages. Where we are mostly obliged to use the continuous in speaking about "right now", the Spanish can use their present simple. Where our present perfect usually makes reference more to the present than the past, they can use it to speak about a recent past event without necessary relation to the present moment.
All of these differences are exercises in comparative linguistics that might be highligted at the outset of a unit or class on any of these subjects, but which must then be filed away as reference points, since most students are not in an ESL class to compare L1 with L2, but rather to get a grasp on L2. Soooo, the concentration should not be on how L2 is different from L1, but rather should be on helping the student accept how things are done, said, in L2, how to leave L1 out of the picture as soon as possible. Often times, though a nice, thorough explanation exists, the best answer to the question "Why?" on this or that oddity in English is:
"Well, English is like that."
peace,
revel.
I'm glad I can be of help to you, Alexanndra. Here's a bit more.
Another area where Spanish and English differ significantly is in the organization of the personal pronouns. One of the problems that would have to be confronted in Juan's suggestion of using a drill that substitutes the gerund with "it" is that there is no clear, accurate translation of that pronoun into Spanish. Thus, creating a drill in which a short list of verbs that are usually followed by the gerund are then transformed into the pronoun would take care of two birds with one stone; that is, students will get into the habit of using the gerund as well as practice the use of the pronoun "it" to replace "the act of" whatever verb has been made noun.
I enjoy swimming. What do you enjoy? Swimming. Do you enjoy swimming? Yes, I enjoy it.
I considered learning English. What did you consider doing? Learning English. Did you consider learning English? Yes, I considered it.
(for a longer list of verbs useful in the contrast between gerund and the infinitive use, see a thread called something like "Looking for Gerunds", or maybe it was one of the "Venn diagram" threads where I posted several.)
Getting back to the personal pronouns, though, as I said, they are grouped in different ways in English than in Spanish. Where in Spanish they can be totally avoided, as the verb reflects person as well as time or mode, in English they must be used unless we are naming the subject of our utterance. Also, in Spanish they can be placed in two columns, one titled "singular" and the other "plural", based on numbers, while in English they ought to be grouped as "I, you, we, they" (which share the use of the root form in the simple present) and "he, she, it" (which carry that obligatory "s" in the simple present). Once the simple present has been waded through, the concept of "singular" and "plural" depends on the context, in the case of "you" and on the meaning of the personal pronoun in all other cases.
Even parralel structures, such as the present continuous or the present perfect are not used in the same way in both languages. Where we are mostly obliged to use the continuous in speaking about "right now", the Spanish can use their present simple. Where our present perfect usually makes reference more to the present than the past, they can use it to speak about a recent past event without necessary relation to the present moment.
All of these differences are exercises in comparative linguistics that might be highligted at the outset of a unit or class on any of these subjects, but which must then be filed away as reference points, since most students are not in an ESL class to compare L1 with L2, but rather to get a grasp on L2. Soooo, the concentration should not be on how L2 is different from L1, but rather should be on helping the student accept how things are done, said, in L2, how to leave L1 out of the picture as soon as possible. Often times, though a nice, thorough explanation exists, the best answer to the question "Why?" on this or that oddity in English is:
"Well, English is like that."
peace,
revel.