Teacher Discussion Forums

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:09 am

'Now' is used here in a sentence in the past tense. We don't use it in conversation that way.

But...

First, I can easily imagine myself in a conversation with my buddy, Ralph, where I might say to him, "..., so I was just sitting there in the lobby trying to keep my eyes open, I was so exhausted. All at once, I opened one eye and this fantastic long-legged blonde was just sitting down on the chair opposite mine. Now both my eyes popped open, and my brain began to buzz..."

So I don't believe you when you say we don't use it in conversation that way.

Second, what does fiction have to do with it? Why can't a non-fiction text use the 'displaced' now as easily as a fictional text? I can imagine reading an astronomy textbook explaining how the universe began, for instance, and using a 'displaced' now to explain why an initially expanding but decelerating universe "suddenly" started accelerating. This is evidently what actually happened about five billion years ago, and yet in certain contexts, I can imagine referring to it as now.

Larry Latham

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:36 am

I'm with Larry on this one (as usual). Surely now refers to the moment uppermost in the speaker's mind, which is not necessarily the moment of speaking. It's the context which tells us exactly what time now refers to in any given utterance.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:31 am

To be atypically conciliatory, could I suggest that there is not necessarily a contradiction between metal56's view and Larry's.

Couldn't we consider conversation about the past to be oral narrative?

And wouldn't narrative be a better term than fiction for what metal56 is referring to?

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:22 pm

Stephen, this is unusual for you.

I'd be happy with your conciliation, although I'd point out that I've never had any animosity for metal56 (who seems like a pretty good egg). Narrative works for me. And if we take lolwhites definition, which is concise, and substitute producer's or user's for "speaker's", why, then we'll have an idea for now that'll pass muster with me.

How's about it, metal56?

Larry Latham

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:46 pm

Now both my eyes popped open, and my brain began to buzz..

."

This prompted me to think about another use of "now" to which this sentence approaches. A filler or a linking expression. "Now where was I?" appart from sth that you don't want to say too often if you want to look smart, only seems to function as a filler.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:09 pm

Yeah, Andy. Some authors in the field helpfully refer to these kinds of utterances as "conversation management" tools. They serve to direct and control the flow of the conversation.

They are maximally useful to EFL students. They should not be ignored in the classroom despite the fact that they don't really carry direct meaning.

Larry Latham

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:07 am

LarryLatham wrote:
'Now' is used here in a sentence in the past tense. We don't use it in conversation that way.
But...

I'm glad you responded that way. I also agree that it can be used in many text types and register. You barroom example was spot on!

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:15 am

lolwhites wrote:I'm with Larry on this one (as usual). Surely now refers to the moment uppermost in the speaker's mind, which is not necessarily the moment of speaking. It's the context which tells us exactly what time now refers to in any given utterance.

I agree totally.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:17 am

Stephen Jones wrote:To be atypically conciliatory, could I suggest that there is not necessarily a contradiction between metal56's view and Larry's.

Couldn't we consider conversation about the past to be oral narrative?

And wouldn't narrative be a better term than fiction for what metal56 is referring to?

Thanks for the observation, but what I posted were not my words.

Here's more:

4 used in stories or reports of past events to describe a new situation or event:
It was getting dark now and we were tired.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define. ... &dict=CALD

3. at the point in time being referred to; by this time; then.

http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php? ... type=exact

4. At this point in the series of events; then: The ship was now listing to port.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/97/N0179700.html

3. at this time or juncture in some period under consideration or in some course of proceedings described: The case was now ready for the jury.

http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/now

At this point in the series of events; then: The ship was now listing to port.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=now

3. At a time contemporaneous with something spoken of or contemplated; at a particular time referred to.
The ship was now in the midst of the sea. Matt. xiv. 24.

http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=now

3. In narrative: then.
Example: He now turned from journalism to fiction

http://www.allwords.com/query.php?Searc ... nguage=ENG

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:32 am

LarryLatham wrote:Stephen, this is unusual for you.

I'd be happy with your conciliation, although I'd point out that I've never had any animosity for metal56 (who seems like a pretty good egg). Narrative works for me. And if we take lolwhites definition, which is concise, and substitute producer's or user's for "speaker's", why, then we'll have an idea for now that'll pass muster with me.

How's about it, metal56?

Larry Latham

From one egg to another, I have a massive hangover today. England out of the Eurocup!

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:35 am

Andrew Patterson wrote:
Now both my eyes popped open, and my brain began to buzz..
."

This prompted me to think about another use of "now" to which this sentence approaches. A filler or a linking expression. "Now where was I?" appart from sth that you don't want to say too often if you want to look smart, only seems to function as a filler.

The "now" you refer to is a discourse marker and not really deictic. Very different from the "now" in my examples of deictic now with past tense reference.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:09 pm

I had to look this one up metal,

Noun 1. deictic - a word specifying identity or spacial or temporal location from the perspective of a speaker or hearer in the context in which the communication occurs; "words that introduce particulars of the speaker's and hearer's shared cognitive field into the message"- R.Rommetveit
deictic word
word - a unit of language that native speakers can identify; "words are the blocks from which sentences are made"; "he hardly said ten words all morning"
Adj. 1. deictic - relating to or characteristic of a word whose reference depends on the circumstances of its use; "deictic pronouns"

Do you mean the noun or adjective? I assume the noun is uncountable.

IMHO, "now" would be a filler ( I think it falls short of being a true linking word) if it was followed by a comma. Without the comma, I guess it is indeed deictic.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:18 pm

Do you mean the noun or adjective? I assume the noun is uncountable.

I don't understand the question.

IMHO, "now" would be a filler ( I think it falls short of being a true linking word) if it was followed by a comma. Without the comma, I guess it is indeed deictic.

Try looking up "discourse marker". "Now" is often used not just as a filler but as a signaler.

Now, listen please.

Now, let's begin.

It can be utilised in the same way to soften the imperative that follows. Look up "hedging" - if you need to. In those uses it is far from a redundancy.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:30 pm

I believe, Andy, that metal56 means to point out that the "now" as used in your example, "Now, where was I?", does not depend on the context for it's value. It can be used in any context with the same general effect on the conversation. It guides and helps to control the flow of the conversation, but does not provide any contextually based input. This now does not, for example, refer to any point in time.

Larry Latham

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:10 pm

Do you mean the noun or adjective? I assume the noun is uncountable.

I don't understand the question.

I gave two definitions, I wondered which was closest to what you meant.

Quote:
IMHO, "now" would be a filler ( I think it falls short of being a true linking word) if it was followed by a comma. Without the comma, I guess it is indeed deictic.

Try looking up "discourse marker". "Now" is often used not just as a filler but as a signaler.

I am fairly familiar with this term, although I will indeed do more research. I think that there is a continuum of (sub-)words from "um", "uh", "mmm", etc which only serve to allow time for thinking , and which convey a negative impression of the speaker, to words like "furthermore" that serve to connect ideas in a meaningful way. I have made a very detailed list of the linking words in English, by the way.

Now, listen please.

Now, let's begin.

It can be utilised in the same way to soften the imperative that follows. Look up "hedging" - if you need to. In those uses it is far from a redundancy.

Hedging is different to softening. Hedging is sitting on the fence, softening is more or less the opposite of emphasising. ("More or less" is hedging.)

I believe, Andy, that metal56 means to point out that the "now" as used in your example, "Now, where was I?", does not depend on the context for it's value. It can be used in any context with the same general effect on the conversation. It guides and helps to control the flow of the conversation, but does not provide any contextually based input. This now does not, for example, refer to any point in time.

I'm not sure that "now" necessarily softens these sentences, and I do not agree that "now" does not refer to any point in time. To me "now" emphasises the immediacy of the imperative. If it softens "Listen please," it is because the imperative is even more immediate than the present.

It certainly does not soften "Let's begin," because "Let's" is a hortative rather than an imperative, that is, it's a suggestion, not an order. "Now" to me makes it stronger.