now

[revel]

Hey everyone!

What a lot of milage you all are getting out of such a little word! What would the discussion be like if someone asked about the use of the indefinate article "a"?¿

In any case, it has been nice reading this thread, though it got a little heavy around page five and six, some rather long articles that had to be scrolled over because of the inate confusion of one of the posters. Never thought that "now" would have so much weight in English and will be careful in the future, now, to not limit my explanations to "present continuous marker"!

Thanks to all!

peace,
revel.

[LarryLatham]

...and I do not agree that "now" does not refer to any point in time. To me "now" emphasises the immediacy of the imperative. If it softens "Listen please," it is because the imperative is even more immediate than the present.

Andy,

With all due respect to your genuinely wonderful analytic mind, which you have demonstrated hereabouts over and over again, I believe you're stretching a bit too far in this case. Taking your example:

Now, where was I?

I just do not see how the Now stresses any immediacy. Leave it off, or replace it with "OK", and the expression carries just about the same effect. If you really want to pick at it, there is an implicit meaning of, "Where did I leave off before?" It does not refer to "NOW", but rather to a point before now. But I wouldn't even do that. I believe it is merely a discourse marker, as metal56 (our resident discourse analyst) has labelled it, or a conversation management tool, as I suggested before, that serves to guide the listener (of course, this would only be used in oral speech or in written dialog) back to the topic under discussion. It is a single lexical item, I would propose, without analyzable meaning, but with a function in the discourse.

Larry Latham

[revel]

Hey all!

I must agree with Larry and metal on that point.

Now, where was I?
Uhh, where was I?
Let's see, where was I?
Hmm, where was I?
Wait a minute, where was I?
Come on now, where was I?

peace,
revel.

[Andrew Patterson]

Larry,

you have added to what I said, and what you said can be right. However, I think my analysis can be right too. It comes down to tone of voice.

I think that your own analytical mind has contributed more to this discussion than mine has by the way.

Revel wrote:

I must agree with Larry and metal on that point.

Now, where was I?
Uhh, where was I?
Let's see, where was I?
Hmm, where was I?
Wait a minute, where was I?
Come on now, where was I?

Revel,

I was only refering to "now" used with the imperative, but this may only be clear if you read two of my posts together. I have already stated that "now" followed by a comma [without the imperative] is a discourse marker. I did not say without the imperative at the time, that was in my later post.

The examples you gave are indeed discourse markers and I'm not going to argue otherwise.

[revel]

Hey Andrew.

Oh, yes, I see what you mean, having read the two posts in question.

I tried something with the various examples given in this thread. Without putting them in context mentally, I simply read them aloud with different interpretations (one of my favorite intonation exercises in class, "I've got a headache" said the patient to his doctor, said the wife to her husband, etc) and found that I could accept anyone's theory on the use of "now". So, excepting the long winded (me among them) who just can't seem to grasp it and discuss for the sake of discussion, I think all of you are right! (How's that for brown nosing? )

peace,
revel.

[metal56]

Hey Andrew.

Oh, yes, I see what you mean, having read the two posts in question.

I tried something with the various examples given in this thread. Without putting them in context mentally, I simply read them aloud with different interpretations (one of my favorite intonation exercises in class, "I've got a headache" said the patient to his doctor, said the wife to her husband, etc) and found that I could accept anyone's theory on the use of "now". So, excepting the long winded (me among them) who just can't seem to grasp it and discuss for the sake of discussion, I think all of you are right! (How's that for brown nosing? )

peace,
revel.

The latest news:

Thanks to Costas Gabrielatos:
In a random 50,000 instances of ‘now’ in the BNC, there were some 5,650 instances of ‘now + noun/pronoun + verb’, of which about 1,500 are instances of ‘now + noun/pronoun + past tense’ – that’s about 25%.

Thought you might like to know.

Costas

----------------------------------------
If you would like to read some of Gabrielatos' writing on language learning,:

http://www.gabrielatos.com

[Stephen Jones]

No it's 3%

Yours statistically

[woodcutter]

Now then, surely this discourse marker is meant to focus the listener on the "now" in real time, since something considered very interesting is about to be revealed.

If not, by the way, are we to give up saying that it represents "present time"?

[LarryLatham]

No it's 3%

Yours statistically

1500/5650 X 100 = 26.55%

[LarryLatham]

...are we to give up saying that it ["now"]represents "present time"?

Of course not! But we should give up saying that it always represents "present time."

Larry Latham

[metal56]

Hey all!

I must agree with Larry and metal on that point.

Now, where was I?
Uhh, where was I?
Let's see, where was I?
Hmm, where was I?
Wait a minute, where was I?
Come on now, where was I?

peace,
revel.

Good show. Here it does mean "at this present moment":


Now where am I? I'm so absent minded.


Now where am I? I should have brought a map.


Now where am I? I should have listened to her advice and I would still be married.

[Duncan Powrie]

No it's 3%

Yours statistically

1500/5650 X 100 = 26.55%

Whatever you do, Stephen, don't try hara-kiri by calculator - that would be very painful, and you might get a sum wrong again as your fingers spasmed.

[Stephen Jones]

In a random 50,000 instances of ‘now’ in the BNC, there were some 5,650 instances of ‘now + noun/pronoun + verb’, of which about 1,500 are instances of ‘now + noun/pronoun + past tense’ – that’s about 25%.

50,000/1,500 = 3%

I was suggesting that metal56 was trying to sneak in the false impression that 'now' is used with the past simple 25% of the time.

The statistic is meaningless noise either way.

[Duncan Powrie]

Hmm SJ I can't speak for anyone else, but I myself wouldnt've been in danger of misinterpreting the data metal presented (and if I did, that would be my fault, not his - he is quoting somebody else, after all!).

The sample from the BNC is clearly limited in itself ("a random 50,000 instances"), so I can tell right away that I can't generalize that it is about every conceivable use of "now". Then, the subset under consideration is clearly "now + noun/pronoun + verb", which further cautions me about the applicability of what I am reading through. Finally, I realize that only about 25% of the subset with which I am now concerned (which is admittedly, but now only incidentally, only 3% of the total sample) occurs with "now". What could be clearer?

The only thing I'd now need to do is realize what the full implications are of these earth-shattering statistics, and act on them (or maybe not).

I like to be made aware of data, and not sweep it (or have it swept) under the carpet straight away - if that happens too often, students will start noticing the lumps and furballs...

ANALOGY ALERT

[metal56]

I was suggesting that metal56 was trying to sneak in the false impression that 'now' is used with the past simple 25% of the time.

I never sneaked in my life, well, apart from the three beers I had last night coz my wife is away.


The statistic is meaningless noise either way.[/quote]

For whom.