Threads--What do we get from them?

[LarryLatham]

Revel, you are right to point out how small a group the active participants are. As of this writing, there are 3278 registered users on Dave's ESL Cafe Teacher's Forum. And I guess about 15, let's add a few more to give recognition to several who post occasionally...say, 30 are active in this particular section (Applied Linguistics). There are 23 different forums, but most are much quieter than this one. So, let's say there might be about 200 active posters in all. That's about 6% of the total number of registered users. What do the other 94% do? Are the few putting on a show for the many? Are we entertainers?

Another way to look at this is to sort the memberlist in descending order of number of posts. In total, there are 8646 posts on the forum. The 30 most active people have posted 4549 of the total, or nearly 53%. Almost 2000 of the registered users have never posted at all, and a large number have only posted one article!

Mebbe it's just time for some of us to shut up!

Larry Latham

[revel]

Hey Larry, and everybody else!

Thanks for the stats, Larry, I suspected as much but doing family history research these days, didn't take the time to do the percentage thing, though I had looked at the top posters when writing my last note.

Oh, no, I don't think we should shut up (and I assume you, Larry, with over 600 posts to your name don't intend to either, ), that would turn this place into the "This is the place for ESL teachers" in the microsoft communities, that is, a graveyard!

I think the answer to our complaints is to simply enjoy one anothers' company, keep picking on one another, keep delving into those subjects that interest us, keep respecting one another, keep posting as we have been doing. And maybe always insist that newcomers elaborate on their questions, regurgitate our answers, participate. Some may take the bait!

peace,
revel.

[LarryLatham]

Well, perhaps you guys are right. Maybe it is enough just to get on the computer from time to time and "let it hang out" just a bit. I suppose the truth is that, for many of us, this forum is merely a form of entertainment that can be safely had late at night, with a beer in one hand and an ice-pack on the back of the neck trying to diminish the throbbing pain that asserted itself during that last conversation class. It's nothing to be taken too seriously after all, I suppose.

But still, I think I'd feel better if some of these discourses would resolve rather than dissolve. It might help to make them seem more worthy of our time and effort.

Larry Latham

[coffeedecafe]

of course, 'knowingitallism' is not a word as defined as something you can find in a dictionary, and i am not likely to change my opinion on that...
since i started surfing the student side and came over here without presenting my credentials, maybe more students need to be invited to the teachers debate table. would the teachers learn from the students as well? of course, dealing with nuances and technical differences of language could confuse or discourage the well intentioned learner. at least that confusion would occur in the presence of some who might be able to guide them around the rocky shoals[sea term as illustration] of the english uses.

[LarryLatham]

If you surf around a bit you'll find that we have lots of students (or at least non-native speakers) who come here. And of course we (teachers) do learn from them. Some of them are astonishingly observant. Some are amazingly fluent.

Larry Latham

[Roger]

A good debate, thanks to all, especially to Larry whoalways initates good threads and offers sound comments.
I have been absent throughout this summer for technical reasons, no other ones. I am glad those problems are overcome now.

As for my take on this view, I can safely say I have learnt quite a bit by following discussions in all these fora - not just this particular one but Employment discussions too, as well as Elementary Education and others.
Can I quantify my harvest? Of course not, but let's say I have come to accept cer4tain views such as the concept of pairing students for discussions. This was totally new to me when I came to the Orient, and I have successfully tested it. My opinion on it is not exactly one of total support though, but at least I have put it (the pairing and I now know a method that works (on some occasions).

I certainly have larnt many other things, but I can't enumerate them right now. On the other hand, I am a frequent poster, especially in the Employment fora. While I am more often in the giving-advice league than at the receiving end of it, I have had to swallow my pride on occasion and change my belief.

I came to this board mainly because I have been in this for the first several years I was totally cut off from any contact with any other EFL teachers except those I was rubbing shoulders with - not many! I didn't know anyone a 100 kms away in the same province; now courtesy of Dave's, I have been repeatedly in touch with fellow teachers all over China and the rest of the world. I have been visiting these fora since around 2000.
I have, admittedly, a special agenda. I am a teacher, and I have been a student throughout my life as well. As a teacher I impart know-how, and as a student I acquire it from other sources. I have had to learn more than one language, and therefore I often feel - perhaps somewhat superciliously - that I have an edge over monolingual English teachers. This is reflected in my comments on the usefulness of certain teaching approaches and methodologies. I have for a long time been railing against the economic mainstay of most TEFLers in the Far East - our being used as conversation English "teachers".
I don't know if I have any chance of converting the decision-making powers to my view, but I have anecdotal evidence to suggest that over time many of my foreign colleagues come round to my view.
When they have been here for the first 3 months, or even one semester, they seldom accept my riticism; but those who have been around for several years often change their minds - putting them in line with mine.

[LarryLatham]

Always good to hear from you, Roger. Are you still in China?

Larry Latham

[Roger]

Still in China, and staying for some more time.

Roger

[Duncan Powrie]

From the sounds of it, you've been in China too long, mate! Get out while you still can!

[woodcutter]

Blimey. I never looked at the league table before. I've shot into the top 10. And I don't know a single thing about English. I promise to post much less from now on.

Unless Roger begs me to.

[coffeedecafe]

I have, admittedly, a special agenda. I am a teacher, and I have been a student throughout my life as well. As a teacher I impart know-how, and as a student I acquire it from other sources. I have had to learn more than one language, and therefore I often feel - perhaps somewhat superciliously - that I have an edge over monolingual English teachers. This is reflected in my comments on the usefulness of certain teaching approaches and methodologies.

for the most usual situation, i think, a student of english does gain from being immersed in an english-speaking omly situation, but possibly not as much as is assumed. any dialogue based practice must beware of just re-using present vocabulary in new ways. has any one used a thesaurus or amplified bible to expand from one word to many of similar meaning?
if those of you who speak the foreign language of those you teach- do you have a handy list of 20-100 english words for the rest of us that an approximate foreign equal word should be learned upon entering that country or soon after? i would think words that form their own sentences like good, welcome, wait, help, look , where is, and of course the best international conversational learning word of all time.... why?... would be represented.
just the fact that a teacher is willing to reach out in the other language could lower social barriers? or should i find familiar kindergarden books in the other language as a first primer? see spot . see spot run ., ., .., ......,

[LarryLatham]

Actually, the way I read Roger's comment, my impression was that he was saying that a language teacher who has "been in his students' shoes" by being a student himself, has an edge over a teacher who does not know another language well enough to use it.

Larry Latham

[coffeedecafe]

more on topic, i think much valuable can be absorbed and shared from these forums. i will be missing from time to time because i will be surfing other threads and discussions to become more familiar with the whole esl type world. of course the value of the individual opinion is not based on past expertise of the writer, since those factors may not be known. judgement then must be subjective on the level of, has what this person written before which made sense to me?, and, is what i have just finished reading something i would like to try[reporting back any major success or failure i have then encountered? for instance, my lack of capital letters and artistic but improper use of punctuation might be acceptable in a poet, but not a writer of educational texts or government position papers.
also, use of 'what do you think', and'in my humble opinion' could spur more debate than 'my decree is this'.

[coffeedecafe]

larry is right. those who have encountered the problems of language learning can be more empathetic in how they teach.

[Roger]

I wholeheartedly support the idea that STUDENTS should post here as well - perhaps THEY ought to prod us into thinking about English and how it works.

One of the reasons why I am not an avid oral English fan is that many of my colleagues over-empathise with their English learners. We shouldn't pity those who learn our language - but we should guide them towards proficiency, competence and fluency, so that they can learn autonomously, building up their self-confidence by themselves.
I hear from my expat colleagues far too often, "my students have learnt to interact with me in a meaningful way. THEY HAVE GAINED IN SELF_CONFIDENCE!"
To which I might juxtapose a slightly ironic "Really?"

Because the minute these studewnts of my colleagues are on their own (without the benefit of their over-empathetic foreign teacher), their self-confidence plummets again to the bottom of the ocean!
This often is because their empathetic foreign teacher is no longer available to guess the meaning of their students' English phraseology.
They will have reinforced acquired faulty grammar and fossilised mispronunciations, and this will show both in writing and in speaking.