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JuanTwoThree
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Post by JuanTwoThree » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:16 am

If I can bring my ideas together? It'll be a first.


Here's another. But I think it started as a joke and was coined by Arnie Scharzenegger (spelling?) or is Yiddish or other L1 ish:

I kid you not.

Yes, that's probably not it.

Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:46 am

"I kid you not" definitely wasn't started by the gubenator, it's been around for as long as I can remember. Trouble is, recognising these expressions is a lot easier than coming up with them. I'll add it.

JuanTwoThree
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Post by JuanTwoThree » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:19 am

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... g-nllt.pdf+

Page 16 paragraph 3. They see our "not" as an adverb, to put it simply, if I understood a 1/4 of it.

Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:31 am

Thanks for the link, Juan,

Would you include, "care" as in, "I care not." Seems a bit borderline, kind of 19th centuary to me.

Would any Americans out there use it?

JuanTwoThree
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Post by JuanTwoThree » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:53 am

Leaving aside the "verb+not+to" pattern, we are left with the perhaps genuine "stand-alones":
I assume not
believe
care?
fear
gather
guess
imagine
(kid)
suggest
suspect
suppose
think
trust
(worry)

These, and a few more I expect, are not complicated by the suggestion that there is a completely elided infinitive after them with the strong possibility that the "not" is simply in an unusual place, as in:

"Will we see you tomorrow?"

"I expect not" = "I expect not to" = "I expect not to do that"

and it's important to repeat that the natural pause, at least in the middle-sized and large versions, separates the "expect" from the
" not".

The other important common factor is that the list above can, mostly, be used to talk about the past:

"Did he arrive in time?" "I ------- not"

which again takes us away from the infinitive of purpose. Having said that, it seems reasonable to distinguish between

"Will you arrive late?" "I hope not" ((to)) arrive late)

and "Did he arrive late?" "I hope not"

which suggests that the list could be longer in this specific context of the past .

Now it could still be a massive elision: "I fear/hope/gather etc (that he did) not. But the fact remains that it is done with these verbs and not others:

*"Did he arrive on time" "I remember not"

PS As for "care" well most have a whiff of mothballs about them; how academic, Shakespearian, 19th century, Hill-Billy, Biblical or whatever each one may sound is very personal. Others (eg suppose) don't seem at all archaic.

Stephen Jones
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Post by Stephen Jones » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:36 pm

All in all, there seems to be a lot of complication underlying the use of not after a verb. - not!

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